[Wg-uma] Draft minutes of UMA telecon 2009-08-27

Eve Maler eve at xmlgrrl.com
Thu Aug 27 15:12:41 PDT 2009

The draft minutes are here:


The action item summary is here:


The minutes are also pasted below, for your convenience.


Adams, Trent
Akram, Hasan
Andrieu, Joe
Bryan, Paul
Catalano, Domenico
Fletcher, George
Hanson, Michael
Henderson, Iain
Machulak, Maciej
Maler, Eve
Nagelberg, Alan
Diego Lopez
Roll call
Is the focus/quorate thing working for us?
Approve minutes of prior telecons
UMA telecon 2009-08-06
UMA telecon 2009-08-13
UMA telecon 2009-08-20
Action item review
Briefly discuss options for collaborating on implementations
Review and consider acceptance of scenarios and use cases
Sharing a Calendar with Vendors (Pending)
Any changes requested? Ready for a vote?
The replacement (expected shortly) for Granting Service Access to a  
Photo Set (Pending)
Further comments?
Distributed Social Networks (Pending)
AI: Eve: Investigate donations of properly working telecon bridges for  
the future.

Roll call
Quorum not reached. Let's undo our focus/quorate decision, and just  
have meetings. We can batch-up our meeting minutes into monthly  
electronic ballots, to make sure that group participants who are not  
joining the calls have a chance to review and approve the work done to  

Approve minutes of prior telecons
UMA telecon 2009-08-06
UMA telecon 2009-08-13
UMA telecon 2009-08-20
AI: Eve: Send out an electronic ballot for the August meeting minutes.

Action item review
2009-08-20-2: Check on IPR considerations around public(ish) F2F  
meetings: Still pending a final decision from Kantara staff on how to  
handle this.

2009-08-20-4: Eve: Revise the photo set scenario to be more realistic:  
Now closed.

Briefly discuss options for collaborating on implementations
Eve describes our group has having a goal of facilitating  
implementations, but not hosting them here. If someone wants to start  
a "sister group" in Kantara (or elsewhere) that chooses a suitable IPR  
option (very likely the "Apache option" in the Kantara case), that's a  

Iain notes that his company Mydex is interested in doing an  
implementation and possibly contributing some work that's been done to  
date. Currently they've built on ID-WSF and information cards.

Paul plans to establish a "reference implementation" type of project  
that tests out and demonstrates the protocol we're developing, with  
the hope that it could eventually be suitable as a code base for  
productized efforts. He's reluctant to make it part of this group or  
too closely associated with this group, since all implementations  
should be equal in this group's eyes.

Christian may be able to work on an implementation related to the  
distributed social networking use cases.

Maciej expresses an interest in coding, with a preference for working  
in Java – possibly working with Paul.

Michael suggests that validator code is what should be placed in the  
public domain first and foremost.

When we've got enough real efforts started, we'll keep track of them  
on a wiki page.

Review and consider acceptance of scenarios and use cases
Sharing a Calendar with Vendors (Pending)
What does it mean to "accept" a scenario or use case? It means that we  
have decided to include it in the problem space we're trying to solve.  
Obviously, for a scenario this is a vague standard, but for use cases  
it's a bit more specific, and for requirements (which might be derived  
from our "distinctive aspects"), it could be quite precise and ideally  

We don't have quorum on the call (and may not generally get quorum on  
the calls), so let's do as much as we can by "perfect consensus" on  
the calls, and then do electronic ballots to confirm our decisions.

No one objected to provisionally ACCEPTING this scenario.

AI: Eve: Set up electronic ballot for Calendar scenario.

AI: Hasan: Derive and document proposed requirements from the Calendar  

Controlling Two-Way Sharing of Location Information
Eve proposed this scenario in email.

The read-write aspect doesn't seem to have huge protocol implications,  
but it may have huge conceptual implications, in that two one-way  
write authorizations look like a single big two-way authorization, but  
they're actually not.

The issue of somehow controlling the level of location information is  
a big one for privacy.

Does it have protocol implications to imagine that the SP can "teach"  
the AM what policy options it offers (or even other details of its  
API)? Paul believes that, in step 0, the AM and SP do have an  
opportunity to exchange such information.

Eve suddenly realizes that this scenario has a huge, but so far  
unstated, distinctive aspect: It demonstrates a degenerate case of the  
UMA assumption about "person-to-service" sharing, in that the service  
is representing the exact same person. This is because OAuth today is  
literally about granting service-to-service access where the same  
exact person is "behind" both services.

We think it's worth continuing to refine this scenario and trying to  
get it accepted eventually. We're not there yet. Joe points out that  
the scenario sets up a sort of "federation" that allows any node to  
update my location, but doesn't have grand designs about having the  
services literally collaborate to figure out or correct my location.

We do want to capture scenarios around "person-to-service"  
authorization where the service represents other people, along the  
lines of "portable contacts" or similar – but most such scenarios  
might be deferred rather than accepted for V1.

Paul would like us to generate more scenarios, so that we can pick  
among a bunch of compelling ones.

AI: Christian: Revise distributed social networks scenario.

AI: Hasan: Revise the wiki document to incorporate all scenario  
revisions proposed by people in email.

AI: Everyone: Submit new scenarios by next Tuesday so we have time to  
read them before next week's meeting.

AI: Eve and Hasan: Investigate the possibility of breaking up the  
scenarios into multiple wiki pages.

Next Meeting: UMA telecon 2009-09-03
Day: Thursday, 3 Sep 2009
Time: 9-10am PDT | 12noon-1pm EDT | 16:00-17:00 UTC (time chart)
Dial-In: Stay tuned! We may switch our number

Eve Maler
eve at xmlgrrl.com

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