[Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 23

Patrick Curry patrick.curry at clarionidentity.com
Mon Aug 17 07:52:31 PDT 2009


How would we handle the privacy overlaps?


regards

Patrick Curry
07860 249 074

-----Original Message-----
From: Iain Henderson <iain.henderson at mydex.org>

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:35:49 
To: <patrick.curry at clarionidentity.com>
Cc: <wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org>
Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 23


On a parallel thought - one way of working that might work, would be  
to have the VPI work group represent the needs of the individual  
(customer/ citizen) and the P3 group the needs of the organisation and  
then have structured dialogue/ meetings between the two? Ultimately  
they both have to be aligned.

Iain





On 17 Aug 2009, at 15:20, Patrick Curry wrote:

> The speed of this debate is interesting, particularly as it is already
> splitting into LoA3, which is organisationally centric, and LoA2  
> which is
> citizen-centric - at least from a legal perspective.
>
> I know Robin is too busy right now to answer.  My concern is that we  
> muddle
> the very clear rules and behaviours that exist for LoA3 with the  
> LoA2 use
> case.  Can we agree to separate these out?  If so, we could then  
> consider
> the character and nature of each LoA's properties, for at least some
> nations.
>
> Unless someone has a better approach......
>
>
> yours sincerely
>
> Patrick
>
> Patrick Curry
> Director
> Clarion Identity Ltd
> M:   +44 786 024 9074
> T:   +44 1980 620606
> patrick.curry at clarionidentity.com
> Disclaimer
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: wg-p3-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
> [mailto:wg-p3-bounces at kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of
> wg-p3-request at kantarainitiative.org
> Sent: 17 August 2009 14:51
> To: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
> Subject: Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 23
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16 (Richard Baker-Donnelly)
>   2. Conference call reminder: Thursday 20th August (Robin Wilton)
>   3. Re: Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16 (Robin Wilton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:32:04 +0100
> From: "Richard Baker-Donnelly" <richard at baker-donnelly.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16
> To: "'Iain Henderson'" <iain.henderson at mydex.org>
> Cc: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
> Message-ID: <73E29C104D1F498082706D242E374242 at HomePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Iain,
>
> I think it comes down to working through the use cases, for VPI I  
> suspect
> you have a better grasp of what this might look like in the future.   
> My
> immediate concern was breaking the impression that everything was  
> running in
> lock step tied to the highest level of assurance.  If we cannot  
> break that
> thinking - the complexity that VPI requires is even further away.
>
> I was also thinking about this from the enterprise and collaborative
> community aspects where elements might be easier to get your head  
> around.
>
> In terms of the consumer modelling the challenge is going to be  
> getting a
> user interface that allows people to understand what is going on and  
> the
> implications of their actions and why systems that are working to  
> protect
> their privacy make certain choices.
>
> Richard
>
>  _____
>
> From: Iain Henderson [mailto:iain.henderson at mydex.org]
> Sent: 17 August 2009 14:19
> To: Richard Baker-Donnelly
> Cc: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
> Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16
>
>
> Hi Richard - agreed on 'As we move to VPI (Volunteered Personal  
> Information)
> Systems the ability to
> represent and and understand the rules by which a *granular* LOA can  
> be used
> and manipulated will become increasingly important.'.
>
> On the wider LOA debate, I have a view that this issue would be best
> addressed by going right back to basics and looking at things from the
> individuals needs rather than the organisations (which are  
> ultimately a
> by-product of the individuals needs). I can imagine icons and a  
> range of
> simple explanations for a relatively small number of 'service access
> options'. Tough as that would be, I think it is architecturally more  
> sound,
> and ultimately an awful lot easier than getting standardisation  
> across (even
> within) organisations far less geographies.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> I'd expect to get into that line of thinking in the proposed consumer
> research if we get that moving.
>
> Regards
>
> Iain
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Aug 2009, at 13:52, Richard Baker-Donnelly wrote:
>
>
> As we move to VPI (Volunteered Personal Information) Systems the  
> ability to
> represent and and understand the rules by which a *granular* LOA can  
> be used
> and manipulated will become increasingly important.
>
>
> Iain Henderson
> iain.henderson at mydex.org
>
> This email and any attachment contains information which is private  
> and
> confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an
> addressee, you are not authorised to read, copy or use the e-mail or  
> any
> attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify  
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:47:45 +0100
> From: "Robin Wilton" <futureidentity at fastmail.fm>
> Subject: [Wg-p3] Conference call reminder: Thursday 20th August
> To: "Kantara P3WG" <wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org>
> Message-ID: <1250516865.11504.1330214913 at webmail.messagingengine.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Greetings -
>
> A quick reminder that we have our next conf-call coming up on
> Thursday Aug 20th, at 16:00 BST (08:00 PST, 11:00 EST, 17:00
> CET). Can I request that a P3WG member of the Japan WG/DG please
> contact me by email, so that we can plan for a possible sync-up
> or liaison session in Las Vegas?
>
> Here are the dial-in numbers, which you can also find via the
> P3WG home page, [1]here.
>  * US/Canada toll-free number:  1.866.305.1460
>  * Direct dial (toll) number: +1.416.620.1296
>  * Attendee Code: 9247530
>
>  * International toll-free numbers:
>       + UK: 0800 917 5847
>       + Netherlands: 08002659007
>       + Belgium: 080079491
>       + Japan: 00531160345
>
>
> Draft agenda (suggestions/contributions welcome):
>
> 1 - Re-cap of 10th August meeting at GSA (Washington DC) on US
> plans for C2G authentication;
>
> 2 - Matters arising from (1); P3WG and authentication policy in a
> multi-LoA environment. It's clear that this is a complex topic,
> but also that P3WG members have a lot of relevant expertise and
> detailed knowledge. I suggest we should look at what the group
> could to do define and produce something which sums up the
> problem area clearly and simply, and offers practical guidance to
> stakeholders. Our aim should be to produce something which
> reflects the perspectives of a broad range of stakeholders, and
> provides policymakers with appropriate input to their
> decision-making in this area.
>
> I would like to reach a conclusion, by the end of the call, as to
> whether the Group wishes to define a work item here, and if so
> whether anyone would volunteer to draft a high-level work plan
> (scope, goals, description of deliverables) in time for the Las
> Vegas meetings.
>
> 3 - Planning for the Kantara plenaries in Las Vegas: review the
> conference time-table and room allocation. Current agenda is
> visible online [2]here.
>
> 4 - Nominations for Vice Chair and Secretary
>
> 5 - Stand-in arrangements for September 3rd conference call (RW
> not available...).
>
>
> I look forward to a productive call on Thursday.
>
> With best wishes -
>
> Robin
>
> References
>
> 1. http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/p3wg/Home
> 2.
> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/GI/Kantara+Initiative+Confer
> ences
> Robin Wilton
>
> Director, Future Identity
> Director of Privacy and Public Policy, Liberty Alliance
>
>
> www.futureidentity.eu
> +44 (0)705 005 2931
> ====================================================================
> Structured consulting on digital identity, privacy and public policy
> ====================================================================
> Future Identity is a limited company number 6777002, registered in  
> England &
> Wales
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:50:31 +0100
> From: "Robin Wilton" <futureidentity at fastmail.fm>
> Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16
> To: "Richard Baker-Donnelly" <richard at baker-donnelly.org>, "'Iain
> 	Henderson'" <iain.henderson at mydex.org>
> Cc: Kantara P3WG <wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org>
> Message-ID: <1250517031.11773.1330218125 at webmail.messagingengine.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Agreed,
>
> And from my (admittedly bigoted) perspective, this reflects my
> view that the citizen/data-subject is currently rather
> under-represented in the debate. I think P3WG and its siblings
> (especially Identity Assurance and the VPI strands) are well
> placed to help correct that, if we pool our expertise sensibly.
>
> R
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:32 +0100, "Richard Baker-Donnelly"
> <richard at baker-donnelly.org> wrote:
>
> Iain,
>
>
>
> I think it comes down to working through the use cases, for VPI I
> suspect you have a better grasp of what this might look like in
> the future.  My immediate concern was breaking the impression
> that everything was running in lock step tied to the highest
> level of assurance.  If we cannot break that thinking - the
> complexity that VPI requires is even further away.
>
>
>
> I was also thinking about this from the enterprise and
> collaborative community aspects where elements might be easier to
> get your head around.
>
>
>
> In terms of the consumer modelling the challenge is going to be
> getting a user interface that allows people to understand what is
> going on and the implications of their actions and why systems
> that are working to protect their privacy make certain choices.
>
>
>
> Richard
>  ____________________________________________________________
>
> From: Iain Henderson [mailto:iain.henderson at mydex.org]
> Sent: 17 August 2009 14:19
> To: Richard Baker-Donnelly
> Cc: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
> Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16
>
>
>
>  Hi Richard - agreed on 'As we move to VPI (Volunteered
>  Personal Information) Systems the ability to
>  represent and and understand the rules by which a *granular*
>  LOA can be used
>  and manipulated will become increasingly important.'.
>
>
>
> On the wider LOA debate, I have a view that this issue would be
> best addressed by going right back to basics and looking at
> things from the individuals needs rather than the organisations
> (which are ultimately a by-product of the individuals needs). I
> can imagine icons and a range of simple explanations for a
> relatively small number of 'service access options'. Tough as
> that would be, I think it is architecturally more sound, and
> ultimately an awful lot easier than getting standardisation
> across (even within) organisations far less geographies.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> I'd expect to get into that line of thinking in the proposed
> consumer research if we get that moving.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Iain
> Robin Wilton
>
> Director, Future Identity
> Director of Privacy and Public Policy, Liberty Alliance
>
>
> www.futureidentity.eu
> +44 (0)705 005 2931
> ====================================================================
> Structured consulting on digital identity, privacy and public policy
> ====================================================================
> Future Identity is a limited company number 6777002, registered in  
> England &
> Wales
>
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>
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Iain Henderson
iain.henderson at mydex.org

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