[Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 23

Patrick Curry patrick.curry at clarionidentity.com
Mon Aug 17 07:20:47 PDT 2009


The speed of this debate is interesting, particularly as it is already
splitting into LoA3, which is organisationally centric, and LoA2 which is
citizen-centric - at least from a legal perspective.

I know Robin is too busy right now to answer.  My concern is that we muddle
the very clear rules and behaviours that exist for LoA3 with the LoA2 use
case.  Can we agree to separate these out?  If so, we could then consider
the character and nature of each LoA's properties, for at least some
nations.

Unless someone has a better approach......


yours sincerely

Patrick

Patrick Curry
Director
Clarion Identity Ltd
M:   +44 786 024 9074
T:   +44 1980 620606
patrick.curry at clarionidentity.com 
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-----Original Message-----
From: wg-p3-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
[mailto:wg-p3-bounces at kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of
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Sent: 17 August 2009 14:51
To: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 23

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16 (Richard Baker-Donnelly)
   2. Conference call reminder: Thursday 20th August (Robin Wilton)
   3. Re: Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16 (Robin Wilton)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:32:04 +0100
From: "Richard Baker-Donnelly" <richard at baker-donnelly.org>
Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16
To: "'Iain Henderson'" <iain.henderson at mydex.org>
Cc: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
Message-ID: <73E29C104D1F498082706D242E374242 at HomePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Iain,
 
I think it comes down to working through the use cases, for VPI I suspect
you have a better grasp of what this might look like in the future.  My
immediate concern was breaking the impression that everything was running in
lock step tied to the highest level of assurance.  If we cannot break that
thinking - the complexity that VPI requires is even further away.
 
I was also thinking about this from the enterprise and collaborative
community aspects where elements might be easier to get your head around.  
 
In terms of the consumer modelling the challenge is going to be getting a
user interface that allows people to understand what is going on and the
implications of their actions and why systems that are working to protect
their privacy make certain choices.
 
Richard

  _____  

From: Iain Henderson [mailto:iain.henderson at mydex.org] 
Sent: 17 August 2009 14:19
To: Richard Baker-Donnelly
Cc: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16


Hi Richard - agreed on 'As we move to VPI (Volunteered Personal Information)
Systems the ability to
represent and and understand the rules by which a *granular* LOA can be used
and manipulated will become increasingly important.'. 

On the wider LOA debate, I have a view that this issue would be best
addressed by going right back to basics and looking at things from the
individuals needs rather than the organisations (which are ultimately a
by-product of the individuals needs). I can imagine icons and a range of
simple explanations for a relatively small number of 'service access
options'. Tough as that would be, I think it is architecturally more sound,
and ultimately an awful lot easier than getting standardisation across (even
within) organisations far less geographies.

Thoughts?

I'd expect to get into that line of thinking in the proposed consumer
research if we get that moving.

Regards

Iain




On 17 Aug 2009, at 13:52, Richard Baker-Donnelly wrote:


As we move to VPI (Volunteered Personal Information) Systems the ability to
represent and and understand the rules by which a *granular* LOA can be used
and manipulated will become increasingly important. 


Iain Henderson
iain.henderson at mydex.org

This email and any attachment contains information which is private and
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:47:45 +0100
From: "Robin Wilton" <futureidentity at fastmail.fm>
Subject: [Wg-p3] Conference call reminder: Thursday 20th August
To: "Kantara P3WG" <wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org>
Message-ID: <1250516865.11504.1330214913 at webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Greetings -

A quick reminder that we have our next conf-call coming up on
Thursday Aug 20th, at 16:00 BST (08:00 PST, 11:00 EST, 17:00
CET). Can I request that a P3WG member of the Japan WG/DG please
contact me by email, so that we can plan for a possible sync-up
or liaison session in Las Vegas?

Here are the dial-in numbers, which you can also find via the
P3WG home page, [1]here.
  * US/Canada toll-free number:  1.866.305.1460
  * Direct dial (toll) number: +1.416.620.1296
  * Attendee Code: 9247530

  * International toll-free numbers:
       + UK: 0800 917 5847
       + Netherlands: 08002659007
       + Belgium: 080079491
       + Japan: 00531160345


Draft agenda (suggestions/contributions welcome):

1 - Re-cap of 10th August meeting at GSA (Washington DC) on US
plans for C2G authentication;

2 - Matters arising from (1); P3WG and authentication policy in a
multi-LoA environment. It's clear that this is a complex topic,
but also that P3WG members have a lot of relevant expertise and
detailed knowledge. I suggest we should look at what the group
could to do define and produce something which sums up the
problem area clearly and simply, and offers practical guidance to
stakeholders. Our aim should be to produce something which
reflects the perspectives of a broad range of stakeholders, and
provides policymakers with appropriate input to their
decision-making in this area.

I would like to reach a conclusion, by the end of the call, as to
whether the Group wishes to define a work item here, and if so
whether anyone would volunteer to draft a high-level work plan
(scope, goals, description of deliverables) in time for the Las
Vegas meetings.

3 - Planning for the Kantara plenaries in Las Vegas: review the
conference time-table and room allocation. Current agenda is
visible online [2]here.

4 - Nominations for Vice Chair and Secretary

5 - Stand-in arrangements for September 3rd conference call (RW
not available...).


I look forward to a productive call on Thursday.

With best wishes -

Robin

References

1. http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/p3wg/Home
2.
http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/GI/Kantara+Initiative+Confer
ences
Robin Wilton

Director, Future Identity
Director of Privacy and Public Policy, Liberty Alliance


www.futureidentity.eu
+44 (0)705 005 2931
====================================================================
Structured consulting on digital identity, privacy and public policy
====================================================================
Future Identity is a limited company number 6777002, registered in England &
Wales

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:50:31 +0100
From: "Robin Wilton" <futureidentity at fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16
To: "Richard Baker-Donnelly" <richard at baker-donnelly.org>, "'Iain
	Henderson'" <iain.henderson at mydex.org>
Cc: Kantara P3WG <wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org>
Message-ID: <1250517031.11773.1330218125 at webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Agreed,

And from my (admittedly bigoted) perspective, this reflects my
view that the citizen/data-subject is currently rather
under-represented in the debate. I think P3WG and its siblings
(especially Identity Assurance and the VPI strands) are well
placed to help correct that, if we pool our expertise sensibly.

R


On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:32 +0100, "Richard Baker-Donnelly"
<richard at baker-donnelly.org> wrote:

Iain,



I think it comes down to working through the use cases, for VPI I
suspect you have a better grasp of what this might look like in
the future.  My immediate concern was breaking the impression
that everything was running in lock step tied to the highest
level of assurance.  If we cannot break that thinking - the
complexity that VPI requires is even further away.



I was also thinking about this from the enterprise and
collaborative community aspects where elements might be easier to
get your head around.



In terms of the consumer modelling the challenge is going to be
getting a user interface that allows people to understand what is
going on and the implications of their actions and why systems
that are working to protect their privacy make certain choices.



Richard
  ____________________________________________________________

From: Iain Henderson [mailto:iain.henderson at mydex.org]
Sent: 17 August 2009 14:19
To: Richard Baker-Donnelly
Cc: wg-p3 at kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Re: [Wg-p3] Wg-p3 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 16



  Hi Richard - agreed on 'As we move to VPI (Volunteered
  Personal Information) Systems the ability to
  represent and and understand the rules by which a *granular*
  LOA can be used
  and manipulated will become increasingly important.'.



On the wider LOA debate, I have a view that this issue would be
best addressed by going right back to basics and looking at
things from the individuals needs rather than the organisations
(which are ultimately a by-product of the individuals needs). I
can imagine icons and a range of simple explanations for a
relatively small number of 'service access options'. Tough as
that would be, I think it is architecturally more sound, and
ultimately an awful lot easier than getting standardisation
across (even within) organisations far less geographies.



Thoughts?



I'd expect to get into that line of thinking in the proposed
consumer research if we get that moving.



Regards



Iain
Robin Wilton

Director, Future Identity
Director of Privacy and Public Policy, Liberty Alliance


www.futureidentity.eu
+44 (0)705 005 2931
====================================================================
Structured consulting on digital identity, privacy and public policy
====================================================================
Future Identity is a limited company number 6777002, registered in England &
Wales

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