[WG-InfoSharing] Fwd: WG Charter updating

Jim Pasquale jim at digi.me
Thu Jun 27 19:00:01 UTC 2019


I’m not opposed to the name change and would actually support (ELISA) as an ETLA (Extended Three Letter Acronym) as the correct term/definition fostering good behavior on both side of an agreement.  And now the definition of ELISA Explicit Layered Informed Sharing Agreement. Might I add very GDPR too.

There my two cents on renaming



On Jun 27, 2019, at 2:48 PM, Iain Henderson <iainhenderson at mac.com<mailto:iainhenderson at mac.com>> wrote:

Thanks Jim.

If looking at name change, if anything my own preference would be to return to the original; i.e. Information Sharing Work Group (so drop the consent).

Since GDPR firmed up on 6 legal bases under which an organisation might process personal data, only once of which is consent, I think having only one in the name is too limiting.

The original remit and stance of the group was that ‘good’ information sharing was a human necessity; so we were looking for ways to make good behaviours possible/ preferable; and not so much about discouraging bad behaviours. There’s a lot of subtlety in that I guess, but for example the work group would never have a ‘privacy dashboard’, we’d have an ‘information sharing dashboard’ some of which would be about good sharing, some about less good sharing.

Anyway, i’ll try to draw something together next week as a proposal to be shot down or tinkered with.

Iain

On 27 Jun 2019, at 19:24, Jim Pasquale <jim at digi.me<mailto:jim at digi.me>> wrote:

In case you’ve missed Iain’s request and based on this morning WG discussion, please submit inputs for developing an expanded charter for the WG.

BTW I disagree with Mark’s observation around changing consent to permission, if we are going to make a change in the vernacular of the Charter from consent and here’s why.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/consent<https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/consent>


Begin forwarded message:

From: Iain Henderson <iainhenderson at mac.com<mailto:iainhenderson at mac.com>>
Subject: Re: [WG-InfoSharing] Reminder: tomorrow's call
Date: June 27, 2019 at 1:53:29 PM EDT
To: Jim Pasquale <jim at digi.me<mailto:jim at digi.me>>, "Mark @ OC" <mark at openconsent.com<mailto:mark at openconsent.com>>
Cc: "wg-infosharing at kantarainitiative.org<mailto:wg-infosharing at kantarainitiative.org>" <wg-infosharing at kantarainitiative.org<mailto:wg-infosharing at kantarainitiative.org>>

Agreed thanks, I will try to synthesise.

Any further input before I try to get something out early next week?

On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:37, Jim Pasquale <jim at digi.me<mailto:jim at digi.me>> wrote:

Mark,

You need to use our process and this means submitting it to Iain as he’s leading the effort.

On Jun 27, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Mark @ OC <mark at openconsent.com<mailto:mark at openconsent.com>> wrote:

FWIW,

I would like to be the first to propose that this working group consider a preference receipt as a chartered, roadmap activity.  From all of the feedback,  the technical use cases and the considerable social and political issues, I think something like a preference receipt would be the work item that might really take what many people are looking for from a receipt, to that next level of human to tech relationship management.

Mark



On 27 Jun 2019, at 17:55, Mark @ OC <mark at openconsent.com<mailto:mark at openconsent.com>> wrote:

Hi Lisa,

What you refer to in relationships online with web services does not adhere to current legal, social or historical definitions of consent.  But, it would fall under the definitions and dynamics of permission-ing, authorisations and perhaps preferences in web services.

In particular these 2 slides.

<page5image5887392.png>

Consent

- reflects power asymmetry

- is disempowering
- is a binary only bargain

<page6image7194928.png> <page6image7874304.png>

“Consent by one party permits another to act in a way that might otherwise be

illegal or immoral.” - Nancy S. Kim, Consentability, p.7

On 27 Jun 2019, at 17:50, <lisa at dialplus.net<mailto:lisa at dialplus.net>> <lisa at dialplus.net<mailto:lisa at dialplus.net>> wrote:

Hi Mark,

I’m having a hard time understanding what you’re seeing here.  Can you please explain how the diagram misunderstands or misrepresents consent receipts?

I’m quite clear about the usage of consent pre-technology, so I’m not seeing how the diagram “misunderstands”.

I agree about digital identifiers.

I’m keen to understand your observations re: consent.   Maybe we need a quick call to elucidate.

Lisa

From: Info @ OC <info at openconsent.com<mailto:info at openconsent.com>>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:51 AM
To: Lisa LeVasseur <lalevasseur at ieee.org<mailto:lalevasseur at ieee.org>>
Cc: Jim Pasquale <jim at digi.me<mailto:jim at digi.me>>; wg-infosharing at kantarainitiative.org<mailto:wg-infosharing at kantarainitiative.org>
Subject: Re: [WG-InfoSharing] Reminder: tomorrow's call

Hi Lisa,

This presentation  sort of misunderstands the consent receipt works .. in addition, it sort of misunderstands that people and consent and society exist before and outside of technology relationships that Me2B (name) focuses on.

Mixing these things all together with a standard and a roadmap is just a bit too ugh! If relationships are a focus inside software and on website usage, then this should be the focus. In the context of this focus a specific spec, or standard or relationship management advocacy would be well placed.

But, most importantly Users Respect from Web technology is a narrow and limited explicit consent use case - and what the web tech providers are calling consent - is actually surveillance and not representative of all the other industries or even society.  Not in social terms, not in legal terms, just in their particular biz tech applied use case.

Sort of apple and orange consent discussion - in fact consent is a very old human governance tool that is defined by human physics - and has developed with society and common law over a very long time to become an enforced law (30 + years)

I would even go so far as to suggest, its the use of digital identifier management that doesn’t respect Me2B relationships - nothing to do with consent.  So perhaps adding identity relationship management to the CISWG would be a good way to encompass what you have in this draft.

Mark



On 27 Jun 2019, at 16:27, Lisa LeVasseur <lalevasseur at ieee.org<mailto:lalevasseur at ieee.org>> wrote:

This is the drafty view of the evolution of consent to mutual agency, from a Me2B perspective.  Comments welcome.

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 8:11 AM Jim Pasquale <jim at digi.me<mailto:jim at digi.me>> wrote:
With many of the workgroup participants at Identiverse this week. Tomorrow’s call will focus on drafting an update to the new charter for CIS.

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