[KI-LC] Download form turned into a GPA - what do you think?

Eve Maler eve at xmlgrrl.com
Wed Feb 28 18:41:45 UTC 2018


There are separate questions here, as we seem to be finding out. Are we
trying to encourage more group participation, better IPR hygiene, more
implementation of specs/more reading of reports, more direct KI membership,
more KI early membership pipeline, all of the above, others I'm not even
thinking of? The solution to each may be very different.

I'm told by my FR marketing people that any friction whatsoever put in
front of "collateral" is extremely discouraging to engagement. There are
ways to design an online presence so as to be more engaging without putting
lots of gates up before a document is even presented. So if we want to
drive more early engagement at the Reports & Recommendations page, more
"gates" is probably a terrible way to do it.

If we want to try and impose IPR controls on third parties, I suggest
that's probably impossible for an organization like KI, given that (e.g.)
the PDF versions of the UMA specs aren't the normative ones and we have
what I think are good rationales for needing to deep-link into the HTML
versions, which are, currently at least, openly available. (One rationale:
IANA registration processes pointing into specific sections. Another:
People doing IETF and OpenID Connect and other work *hate* PDF specs -- and
I do too.)

For organizations that charge for specs, IPR controls are much more
possible and expected...



*Eve Maler*Cell +1 425.345.6756 | Skype: xmlgrrl | Twitter: @xmlgrrl


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Ken Dagg <kendaggtbs at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with Andrew with respect to the more eyes that see a document the
> better it is for Kantara. As such, I think there will be a higher
> percentage of abandoned downloads if someone is forced to sign a GPA and
> join a group just to see a document. I agree with Andrew about the updates
> to documents to address the current weaknesses he has identified. To
> strengthen the download process I’d recommend a statement along the line of
> “by downloading you are agreeing to the IPR associated with this document.”
> A link to the IPR would need to be provided. This is similar to the thing
> everyone clicks when they want to download an app.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 12:34 PM Colin Wallis <colin at kantarainitiative.org>
> wrote:
>
>> So to be clear.. my suggestion is that ALL downloads sign a GPA, to in
>> effect bind them to the IPR in a more explicit way than a notice on the
>> docs, whose processes we are explaining more in the new version of the OPs
>> Procs (only seen by Ken and Sal, not all Chairs yet).
>>
>> I'm proposing that 'Members only' downloads is a sub set of ALL downloads.
>>
>> I will respond in more detail to Sal when I'm not on the move..
>>
>> Cheers
>> Colin
>>
>> Executive Director
>> Cell: +44 (0)7490 266 778 <+44%207490%20266778>
>> @KantaraColin
>>
>> Kantara Consent Receipt and UMA are 2 of the top 5
>> <https://identiverse.com/2017/12/18/five-identity-trends-watch-2018/>
>> See Kantara's 2017 Great Work!
>> <https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=96437567>
>>
>> Kantara Initiative Inc <https://kantarainitiative.org/> & Kantara
>> Initiative, Europe
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:10 PM, Andrew Hughes <
>> andrewhughes3000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I read Colin’s note as meaning ALL downloads. The ‘members only’ part
>>> sounded separate.
>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 6:51 AM Salvatore D'Agostino <sal at idmachines.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree on far and wide, I thought you were trying to administer
>>>> something restricted.  Happy to use “your” form.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Andrew Hughes [mailto:andrewhughes3000 at gmail.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:44 AM
>>>> *To:* sal at idmachines.com
>>>> *Cc:* Colin Wallis <colin at kantarainitiative.org>; Kantara Leadership
>>>> Council <lc at kantarainitiative.org>; Ruth Puente <
>>>> ruth at kantarainitiative.org>; Oliver Maerz <oliver at kantarainitiative.org
>>>> >
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [KI-LC] Download form turned into a GPA - what do you
>>>> think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m not keen on this.
>>>>
>>>> I think publications should be circulated far and wide - the more eyes
>>>> that see them, the better.
>>>>
>>>> The weak part in our pubs is a) a text describing the what and why of
>>>> Kantara, b) a citation line that can be cut/pasted by someone wanting to
>>>> acknowledge it in a bibliography (I have added this to the master doc
>>>> template and some recent publications have it on their cover pages), c) a
>>>> license statement, d) a “licensed to” watermark if PDF.
>>>>
>>>> I think the form before download is a clunky but reasonable trade off
>>>> (I suggested it, so blame me if you don’t like it).
>>>>
>>>> Andrew.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 6:17 AM Salvatore D'Agostino <
>>>> sal at idmachines.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think to stay clean on the IP you have to join to group and sign  its
>>>> GPA.  What is the group?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (which means you have multiple GPA’s w/ Kantara),
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have just read the operating procedures the Secretary, if I remember,
>>>> keeps track of documents at what phase distributed in what manner and where
>>>> appropriate, to whom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* LC [mailto:lc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org] *On Behalf Of *Colin
>>>> Wallis
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:58 AM
>>>> *To:* Kantara Leadership Council <lc at kantarainitiative.org>
>>>> *Cc:* Ruth Puente <ruth at kantarainitiative.org>; Oliver Maerz <
>>>> oliver at kantarainitiative.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* [KI-LC] Download form turned into a GPA - what do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Folks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A couple of things have prompted me to think about this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) the new Ops Procs draft where we are being clearer about the process
>>>> if someone deploys a Kantara Tec Spec but is not in conformance with the
>>>> normative requirements and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) Ruth and Oliver working on a way to manage the 800-63-3 SACs
>>>> spreadsheet available for download to 'members only'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In an effort to bind the downloader into the Kantara WG that produced
>>>> the publication, I thought we could have them sign the GPA and join that
>>>> Group.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chairs would have to be stricter on those that chose to be voting
>>>> members, to reclassify them etc, but the effect of having downloaders GPA'd
>>>> into the Group has some positive downstream effects in terms of keeping in
>>>> touch with potential deployers etc etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Colin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Executive Director
>>>>
>>>> Cell: +44 (0)7490 266 778 <+44%207490%20266778>
>>>>
>>>> @KantaraColin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kantara Consent Receipt and UMA are 2 of the top 5
>>>> <https://identiverse.com/2017/12/18/five-identity-trends-watch-2018/>
>>>>
>>>> See Kantara's 2017 Great Work!
>>>> <https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=96437567>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kantara Initiative Inc <https://kantarainitiative.org/> & Kantara
>>>> Initiative, Europe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> LC mailing list
>>>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>>>> https://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Andrew Hughes *CISM CISSP
>>>> Independent Consultant
>>>> *In Turn Information Management Consulting*
>>>>
>>>> o  +1 650.209.7542 <(650)%20209-7542>
>>>> m +1 250.888.9474 <(250)%20888-9474>
>>>> 1249 Palmer Road,
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1249+Palmer+Road,+Victoria,+BC+V8P+2H8&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> Victoria, BC V8P 2H8
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1249+Palmer+Road,+Victoria,+BC+V8P+2H8&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> AndrewHughes3000 at gmail.com
>>>> ca.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-hughes/a/58/682/
>>>> *Identity Management | IT Governance | Information Security *
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Andrew Hughes *CISM CISSP
>>> Independent Consultant
>>> *In Turn Information Management Consulting*
>>>
>>> o  +1 650.209.7542 <(650)%20209-7542>
>>> m +1 250.888.9474 <(250)%20888-9474>
>>> 1249 Palmer Road,
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1249+Palmer+Road,+Victoria,+BC+V8P+2H8&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> Victoria, BC V8P 2H8
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1249+Palmer+Road,+Victoria,+BC+V8P+2H8&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> AndrewHughes3000 at gmail.com
>>> ca.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-hughes/a/58/682/
>>> *Identity Management | IT Governance | Information Security *
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> --
> Kenneth Dagg Independent Consultant Identification and Authentication
> 613-825-2091 <(613)%20825-2091> kendaggtbs at gmail.com
>
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> https://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
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>
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