[KI-LC] DRAFT email to KI Members wrt NSTIC

John Bradley jbradley at me.com
Fri Jul 20 22:45:31 EDT 2012


The concern is a implication that work Groups or members of a participating member cannot themselves have votes for the steering group.

There is no implication that members couldn't participate as associate members.

They are trying to prevent the stacking of votes where every member of an organization or company joins as an individual participant.

I think the rules for companies are fine because the employee relationship is clear.

For Organizations that would be an unreasonable restriction to preclude members who may want to cast there own votes from doing so.   A organization like Kantara represents a number of stakeholders.

I think it can be clarified.

The whole member thing is more about voting than participating in many ways.

John B.
On 2012-07-20, at 8:24 PM, Bob Pinheiro wrote:

> The NSTIC bylaws seem to say that any organization or individual can 
> become a voting Member if that individual or organization signs the 
> Participating Member Agreement.  I don't see where there is any 
> restriction on such Members also being affiliated with other Member 
> organizations.  So there seems to be nothing to prevent a Kantara member 
> from also being an NSTIC Participating Member, should Kantara become an 
> NSTIC Member, provided that the Kantara member signs the NSTIC 
> Participating Membership Agreement.
> 
> Where things get dicey is whether an employee of a Kantara member who is 
> participating in NSTIC as a Kantara Member Associate can also 
> participate as a Member Associate of his/her own employer, if that 
> employer is also an NSTIC Member.  In other words, can an individual 
> participate in NSTIC as a Member Associate of more than one Member?  Not 
> sure.
> 
> There is the restriction that "A person representing or acting on behalf 
> of a Member Organization in any formal or informal capacity within the 
> Steering Group are considered part of that organization and cannot be 
> considered an Individual Member."  So if Kantara were to become an NSTIC 
> member and be represented in the Steering Group by Joni (as the official 
> Member Representative), then she could not also be an individual 
> Steering Group member.  But is an individual who is a Member Associate 
> of Kantara considered to be "acting on behalf of" Kantara?  If so, then 
> that individual cannot apparently also join NSTIC as an individual Member.
> 
> There would seem to be no reason why Kantara shouldn't at least become 
> an Observing Member, since Observing Members have no participation 
> requirements and cannot vote.  It would be strange if an organization as 
> deeply involved with identity as Kantara would not at least join as an 
> Observing Member.   It also seems highly unlikely that an Observing 
> Member would be voted into a leadership position.  So I think the proper 
> question to put to the Kantara membership is whether Kantara ought to 
> join as a Participating Member, or an Observing Member.   But maybe 
> before taking that vote, some thought should be given to whether Kantara 
> can commit to active participation in the Steering Group, since that's a 
> requirement for a Participating Member.  The bylaws seem to imply that 
> these "active participants" could be the individual Kantara 
> Participating Member Representative, or any other individuals listed as 
> Kantara Member Associates in the Membership Agreement.
> 
> Bob P.
> 
> 
> On 7/20/2012 7:05 PM, Heather Flanagan wrote:
>> Got it.
>> 
>> -hf
>> 
>> On 7/20/12 4:03 PM, John Bradley wrote:
>>> Sorry I changed the wording to make it clearer.
>>> 
>>> Many Kantara members will expect to participate
>>> and vote in the NSTIC program through their own organizations rather
>>> than Kantara.  The current NSTIC bylaws are unclear on Kantara members being allowed to
>>> become voting NSTIC members if Kantara becomes a NSTIC member.  The decision for Kantara to join NSTIC is predicated on the clarification of the NSTIC bylaws to allow for separate membership for Kantara members.
>>> 
>>> On 2012-07-20, at 4:56 PM, John Bradley wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Many Kantara members will expect to participate
>>>> and vote in the NSTIC program through their own organizations rather
>>>> than Kantara.  The current NSTIC bylaws are unclear on Kantara members being allowed to
>>>> become voting NSTIC members.  The decision for Kantara to join NSTIC is predicated on the
>>>> clarification of the NSTIC bylaws to allow for separate membership for Kantara members.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Something like that?
>>>> 
>>>> John B.
>>>> On 2012-07-20, at 4:48 PM, Heather Flanagan wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Any suggestion on how to adjust the language for the KI vote to
>>>>> encompass that?  Do we need to?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -hf
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 7/20/12 3:43 PM, John Bradley wrote:
>>>>>> The intention is to allow members and member companies of organizations to also become members from my conversations with the secretariat.   They do agree that the wording is currently unclear.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Employees of companies must may not vote if there company is a member.  That is what is leading to the confusion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The part about members being able to participate individually will not be an issue if they clarify the bylaws.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That may affect how some people would vote.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2012-07-20, at 4:36 PM, Heather Flanagan wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all -
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As discussed on Wednesday's call, we have an urgent need to get out an
>>>>>>> all-member ballot regarding KI's participation in NSTIC.  I've drafted
>>>>>>> up the language to go in to an email to all members, and will create a
>>>>>>> survey monkey ballot shortly.  Please take a moment to review the text
>>>>>>> (I haven't written one of these before!) and get back to me ASAP.  I
>>>>>>> would like to send out the survey on Monday.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kantara Initiative Participants -
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is an All Member Ballot to determine if and how the Kantara
>>>>>>> Initiative should join the National Strategy for Trusted Identities in
>>>>>>> Cyberspace (NSTIC -http://www.nist.gov/nstic/) program as a member
>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Kantara Initiative Board of Trustees has resolved NOT to have the
>>>>>>> Kantara Initiative take a leadership position in the NSTIC.  Such
>>>>>>> involvement could be considered a conflict of interest given how
>>>>>>> Kantara's Certification and Accreditation Programs could form a part of
>>>>>>> the NSTIC program at some future stage.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is a possibility that many Kantara members will expect to participate
>>>>>>> and vote in the NSTIC program through their own organizations rather
>>>>>>> than Kantara, which further complicates Kantara's potential
>>>>>>> participation in the NSTIC program.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This ballot asks two questions:
>>>>>>> 1 - Should the Kantara Initiative participate in the NSTIC program as a
>>>>>>> Member Organization?
>>>>>>> 2 - If yes, what stakeholder group should the Kantara Initiative
>>>>>>> identify with? (14 options)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A link to the Survey Monkey ballot is here: [TBD]
>>>>>>> The ballot closes on July 27, 2012 at 23:59 UTC.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This ballot is open to all Members of the Kantara Initiative.  Decisions
>>>>>>> will be made based on simple majority.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Heather Flanagan
>>>>>>> Kantara Initiative
>>>>>>> Skype: hlflanagan
>>>>>>> email:heather at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> LC mailing list
>>>>>>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Heather Flanagan
>>>>> Kantara Initiative
>>>>> Skype: hlflanagan
>>>>> email:heather at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> LC mailing list
>>>>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> LC mailing list
>>>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
> 
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