[KI-LC] Fwd: [Staff] UMA F2F before IIW

J. Trent Adams adams at isoc.org
Thu Oct 29 15:50:11 EDT 2009


Joni et al. -

If I understand correctly, all Contributions (as defined in the IPR
Policies) to the group are considered protected.  For example, if you
say something in a meeting that's recorded, it's a Contribution.  On the
other hand, it it's rejected and not written into the record, it's as if
it was never spoken.

There's a slight difference in the nature of email discussions, though,
as anything "spoken" is automatically written into the record for the
group.  In that way, all email comments are protected IP.

I believe it's a slippery slope to allow conversations to take place
with a mix of people who have and have not signed the group's GPA.  Then
it's really up to the Chair to manage the conversation in sync with the
Secretary to ensure comments made by an observer don't make their way
into the written record (i.e. that they're not Contributed to the group).

IMO, That's a lot to ask of a Chair during an energetic discussion. 
Consider if someone who hasn't signed the GPA says something that sparks
an idea by someone who has signed the GPA which is subsequently written
into the minutes (i.e. Contributed).  I'm not sure how the Chair can be
expected to unpack what was brought to the table by the visitor.

I believe it's safer to simply designate some meetings as "Official" (in
which full IPR rules are in force) and "Unofficial" in which they're
handled more like an informal conversation.  Despite it's obvious flaws,
at least the delineation makes it more clear to downstream lawyers we've
done what we can to ensure clean IP.

YMMV,
Trent


Joni Brennan wrote:
> One part that concerns me is if we want to set a precedent that IP
> must be accepted to be considered valid.  It might be ok to do so but
> I"m not sure if it's a precedent we want to set. 
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Britta Glade
> <britta at kantarainitiative.org <mailto:britta at kantarainitiative.org>>
> wrote:
>
>     This is a key question to spinning up some discussion around the
>     guidelines we wanted to develop for how to conduct non-WG meetings
>     that are public (ie. an unconference session specific to one of
>     your topics of interest).  I was thinking we'd covered it pretty
>     well in our LC discussion yesterday, but was looking to create
>     some guidelines that included some scenarios.  I think Eve's very
>     succinct statement that "When a group *accepts* feedback, that is
>     the point at which IPR must be invoked (and therefore reflected in
>     the minutes with contributing individual noted, who had already
>     completed the GPA in order to be participating in said formal
>     meeting)."
>      
>     This is where we need some agreement as to what applies to what is
>     being "accepted"--so to below: 1) use cases, 2) scenarios, 3)
>     critique of spec text, 4) revisions, 5) etc?   
>      
>     Thoughts?  This is probably something we need input from counsel
>     on, but I wanted to get some thoughts first.  Thanks.
>      
>     --b.
>
>
>      
>     On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com
>     <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>> wrote:
>
>         This softened version looks great, though it will cause chairs
>         to ask
>         next: What constitutes a contribution of unlicensed IP?  Would
>         scenarios and use cases (problem-space descriptions) carry IP, or
>         not?  I assume critiques of spec text and suggested revisions
>         would.
>
>                Eve
>
>         On 29 Oct 2009, at 4:24 AM, Brett McDowell wrote:
>
>         > Attached is a redline with some suggested changes that
>         emphasize the
>         > scenario of letting folks participate in the meeting even
>         without
>         > signing a GPA.  I do not believe we must require them to
>         either sign
>         > the GPA or be 100% silent in the meeting.  The only thing we are
>         > trying to prevent with this process is someone (knowingly or
>         > unknowingly) "submarining" unlicensed IP into the WG's output.
>         > There is a lot of opportunity for discussion participation in a
>         > meeting that doesn't come close to making an IP contribution
>         to a
>         > work product.  I tried to emphasize that in this revision.
>         > <Kantara F2F participation policy v2_redline.doc>
>         > Brett McDowell  |  http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>         <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/>  |
>          http://KantaraInitiative.org <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>         >
>         > On Oct 28, 2009, at 7:07 PM, J. Trent Adams wrote:
>         >
>         >> Eve et al. -
>         >>
>         >> Following this thread, I've attached the proposed procedure
>         >> document for
>         >> handling events like the UMA meeting before IIW next week.
>         >>
>         >> Give it a read and see if you spot any issues needing to be
>         >> addressed.
>         >> Otherwise, it'd be great to feed Eve's reaction post-event
>         into it
>         >> so we
>         >> can create a process doc for the wiki.
>         >>
>         >> Any thoughts?
>         >>
>         >> - Trent
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> Eve Maler wrote:
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         >>> Begin forwarded message:
>         >>>
>         >>>> *From: *Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com> <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>>
>         >>>> *Date: *28 October 2009 12:37:18 PM PDT
>         >>>> *To: *"Dervla O'Reilly" <dervla at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:dervla at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >>>> <mailto:dervla at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:dervla at kantarainitiative.org>>>
>         >>>> *Cc: *Kantara Staff list <staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >>>> <mailto:staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:staff at kantarainitiative.org>>>
>         >>>> *Subject: **Re: [Staff] UMA F2F before IIW*
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Great to know!  In case this is of interest as "pre-feedback"
>         >>>> before
>         >>>> having seen the written guidance, here is what I've done to
>         >>>> prepare.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> - We're not anticipating a lot of walkups due to the nature,
>         >>>> timing,
>         >>>> and location of the meeting.  I'll blog it ahead of time
>         (tomorrow)
>         >>>> and ask anyone who's thinking of attending to get in
>         touch ASAP.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> - I therefore haven't made a sign, but will watch
>         carefully, in my
>         >>>> chair role, to ensure that I can positively identify
>         every attendee
>         >>>> and put them into buckets: existing participant, new
>         participant
>         >>>> who
>         >>>> has signed in some fashion, or new person who has agreed to
>         >>>> remain a
>         >>>> silent observer.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> - I doctored the document you sent me with the following
>         >>>> handwritten
>         >>>> notations, and will make a few Xerox copies ahead of time:
>         >>>> . Page 1: I gave it a headline of *IPR "Liberty Option"*
>         and also
>         >>>> wrote that it *Applies to participation in Kantara
>         User-Managed
>         >>>> Access WG*
>         >>>> . Page 5 (last page): I added fields as follows (I still
>         don't like
>         >>>> "active" vs. "observer" for the voting/non-voting
>         distinction, and
>         >>>> thus haven't used those words! what would I call true passive
>         >>>> observers, then?...):
>         >>>>   - EMAIL FOR LIST SUBSCRIPTION: __________
>         >>>>   - PARTICIPATION LENGTH: [ ] ONGOING [ ] TODAY ONLY
>         >>>>   - PARTICIPATION STATUS: [ ] VOTING [ ] NON-VOTING
>         >>>>
>         >>>> - I printed out the current KI membership roster to have
>         on hand (I
>         >>>> don't currently have the names of the primary reps, though)
>         >>>>
>         >>>> - Finally, I printed out some supporting materials to have on
>         >>>> hand in
>         >>>> case anyone wants chapter and verse:
>         >>>> . The online "Join This Group" page
>         >>>> . The charter for the group
>         >>>> . The IPR Options page
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Let me know if I'm missing anything.  Thanks...
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Eve
>         >>>>
>         >>>> On 27 Oct 2009, at 12:00 PM, Dervla O'Reilly wrote:
>         >>>>
>         >>>>> I sent my guidance draft to Roger and Trent, hope to
>         have that
>         >>>>> turned around shortly.
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> Thanks
>         >>>>> Dervla
>         >>>>> ________________________
>         >>>>> Dervla O’Reilly
>         >>>>> Event & Membership Manager
>         >>>>> Kantara Initiative
>         >>>>> +1 415 731 4487 business
>         >>>>> +1 415 948 3650 mobile
>         >>>>> +1 509 757 4487 fax
>         >>>>> dervla[at]kantarainitiative.org
>         <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>         >>>>> http://www.kantarainitiative.org
>         <http://www.kantarainitiative.org/>
>         <http://www.kantarainitiative.org/
>         >>>>> >
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> Join the conversation by joining the community@ list
>         >>>>> - http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> On Oct 23, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Brett McDowell wrote:
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>>> Excellent point.
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>> I'd like to ask Dervla to take the lead on drafting
>         that guidance
>         >>>>>> page (Dervla, can you take that on before IIW?).  We'll get
>         >>>>>> review
>         >>>>>> from Trent and Roger S. (as reps from the "two houses")
>         and then
>         >>>>>> promote it as "policy".
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>> Brett McDowell | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>         <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/>
>         >>>>>> <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/> |
>         http://kantarainitiative.org <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>         >>>>>> <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Eve Maler
>         <eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         >>>>>> <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>> wrote:
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>   Good point! It sounds like we have enough material
>         here for a
>         >>>>>>   guidance page on the wiki. :-) Anyone up for that?...
>         With IIW
>         >>>>>>   coming and other conferences ahead, ad hoc KI group
>         meetings
>         >>>>>>   are sure to follow, so guidance would be good to have.
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>   Eve
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>   On 23 Oct 2009, at 8:14 AM, Brett McDowell wrote:
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>   And there's one more important point I don't see being
>         >>>>>>>   discussed... remember in Las Vegas we had those little
>         >>>>>>>   stickers? (don't worry, I'm not suggesting stickers)
>          I want
>         >>>>>>>   to remind everyone why we had the stickers.  It was
>         so the
>         >>>>>>>   Chair knew who was in the room who HAD NOT SIGNED
>         any GPA or
>         >>>>>>>   IPR agreement.  In other words, it's TOTALLY FINE to
>         have
>         >>>>>>>   folks in the meeting who have signed nothing.  The
>         only caveat
>         >>>>>>>   is the Chair needs to be mindful of those folks and
>         exercise
>         >>>>>>>   their professional judgement to disallow them from
>         >>>>>>>   contributing what would be un-licensed (and perhaps
>         >>>>>>>   un-licensable) IPR into the groups' output.
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>   Does that make sense?
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>   P.S.
>         >>>>>>>   If you get attendees who are not members I would
>         also like to
>         >>>>>>>   know so I can follow-up with them and start a recruiting
>         >>>>>>>   effort to bring them onboard.
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>   Cheers!
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>   Brett McDowell | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>         <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/>
>         >>>>>>>   <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/> |
>         >>>>>>>   http://kantarainitiative.org
>         <http://kantarainitiative.org/> <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>   On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Eve Maler
>         <eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         >>>>>>>   <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>>
>         wrote:
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>       Thanks! In this case, maybe that list of primary
>         members
>         >>>>>>>       would be helpful, just in case. But honestly, I
>         don't
>         >>>>>>>       anticipate a lot of walkups since the IIW
>         conference isn't
>         >>>>>>>       going on that day. (I'll get the word out to the
>         community
>         >>>>>>>       that contacting me first is a good idea for new
>         people.)
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>       Eve
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>       On 22 Oct 2009, at 6:41 PM, Joni Brennan wrote:
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Eve Maler
>         >>>>>>>>       <eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>> wrote:
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>           Ah, this document is just the "Option
>         Liberty" text,
>         >>>>>>>>           is that right?
>         >>>>>>>>           Cool.  And I assume I can also mark on the
>         form (or
>         >>>>>>>>           simply ask them)
>         >>>>>>>>           whether they want to be a voting ("active") or
>         >>>>>>>>           non-voting ("observer")
>         >>>>>>>>           participant going forward?
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       That's not on the form Derv sent so yes you can
>         ask them
>         >>>>>>>>       and mark it down.
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>           If anyone whose company is a KI member but
>         isn't yet
>         >>>>>>>>           a participant
>         >>>>>>>>           shows up, do I have to actually call their
>         primary
>         >>>>>>>>           member person
>         >>>>>>>>           before I can let them in?
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       Even if their company is a KI member and even
>         if they are
>         >>>>>>>>       already in other groups we need the primary
>         authority for
>         >>>>>>>>       any new group joined.  Yes, and they should be
>         able to
>         >>>>>>>>       make that call for you - while you are with them I
>         >>>>>>>>       suppose.  That's how we did a few in LV.  If
>         you know of
>         >>>>>>>>       any ahead of time that will help so maybe
>         Dervla can
>         >>>>>>>>       reach out to them before the event.
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       PS - we also used some judgement like for Gael
>         who could
>         >>>>>>>>       not reach Aude in France.  We let him sign and
>         got the
>         >>>>>>>>       approval afterward.  It's most important that
>         they sign
>         >>>>>>>>       if they want to join the group or if they want to
>         >>>>>>>>       contribute IP.  If they just want to be in the
>         room I
>         >>>>>>>>       would not force signing upon them.
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       If they are not members of KI already then they
>         can self
>         >>>>>>>>       assert their own authority to sign.  I know
>         this is going
>         >>>>>>>>       to be a great event for you guys =).
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       thx!
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>           Thanks...
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>                  Eve
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>           On 22 Oct 2009, at 4:23 PM, Dervla O'Reilly
>         wrote:
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> Eve,
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> Great stuff!
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> If you can make note of the attendance and share
>         >>>>>>>>           with me, that would
>         >>>>>>>>> be terrific.
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> Newcomers who have not already signed the GPA and
>         >>>>>>>>           are not members
>         >>>>>>>>> will need to sign the attached file.
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> I see you have a potential attendees list.  For
>         >>>>>>>>           those newcomers to
>         >>>>>>>>> your group who are already members, you will need
>         >>>>>>>>           to reach the
>         >>>>>>>>> primary contact of that member company.  I can send
>         >>>>>>>>           you the primary
>         >>>>>>>>> member list if you wish.
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> Otherwise, I think we're good.
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> Regards,
>         >>>>>>>>> Dervla
>         >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>         >>>>>>>>> <KANTARA INITIATIVE IPR>
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> You'll probably want to have reference to the
>         >>>>>>>>           primary contact
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Eve Maler wrote:
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>>> Hi folks-- My UMA group is planning to hold a F2F
>         >>>>>>>>           meeting at the
>         >>>>>>>>>> Computer History Museum on Monday afternoon, 2 Nov
>         >>>>>>>>           2009; the IIW
>         >>>>>>>>>> organizers kindly agreed we could meet on-site
>         >>>>>>>>           that day.  I'm
>         >>>>>>>>>> prepared
>         >>>>>>>>>> to provide a sign and a signup sheet to manage the
>         >>>>>>>>           group
>         >>>>>>>>>> participation
>         >>>>>>>>>> agreement aspects.  Is there anything else I need
>         >>>>>>>>           to do?  Thanks!
>         >>>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>>>    Eve
>         >>>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>>> Eve Maler
>         >>>>>>>>>> eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>         >>>>>>>>>> http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>         >>>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>         >>>>>>>>>> Staff mailing list
>         >>>>>>>>>> Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >>>>>>>>           <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>>
>         >>>>>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/staff
>         >>>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>           Eve Maler
>         >>>>>>>>           eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>         >>>>>>>>           http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>           _______________________________________________
>         >>>>>>>>           Staff mailing list
>         >>>>>>>>           Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >>>>>>>>           <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>>
>         >>>>>>>>          
>         http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/staff
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       --
>         >>>>>>>>       Joni Brennan
>         >>>>>>>>       IEEE-ISTO
>         >>>>>>>>       Kantara Initiative
>         >>>>>>>>       Director of Technology Programs
>         >>>>>>>>       voice:+1 732-226-4223
>         >>>>>>>>       email: joni @ ieee-isto.org
>         <http://ieee-isto.org/> <http://ieee-isto.org/>
>         >>>>>>>>       gtalk: jonibrennan
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>       Join the conversation on the community@ list -
>         >>>>>>>>      
>         http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>       Eve Maler
>         >>>>>>>       eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>         >>>>>>>       http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>       _______________________________________________
>         >>>>>>>       Staff mailing list
>         >>>>>>>       Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >>>>>>>       <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>         <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>>
>         >>>>>>>       http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/staff
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>>
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>   Eve Maler
>         >>>>>>   eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>         >>>>>>   http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>>
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Eve Maler
>         >>>> eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>         >>>> http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>         >>>>
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         >>> Eve Maler
>         >>> eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>         >>> http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         >>>
>         >>> _______________________________________________
>         >>> LC mailing list
>         >>> LC at kantarainitiative.org <mailto:LC at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>         >>>
>         >>
>         >> --
>         >> J. Trent Adams
>         >> =jtrentadams
>         >>
>         >> Outreach Specialist, Trust & Identity
>         >> Internet Society
>         >> http://www.isoc.org <http://www.isoc.org/>
>         >>
>         >> e) adams at isoc.org <mailto:adams at isoc.org>
>         >> o) 703-439-2149
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> <Kantara Initiative Join Meeting Process at
>         >> events.doc>_______________________________________________
>         >> LC mailing list
>         >> LC at kantarainitiative.org <mailto:LC at kantarainitiative.org>
>         >> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>         >
>
>
>         Eve Maler
>         eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>         http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         LC mailing list
>         LC at kantarainitiative.org <mailto:LC at kantarainitiative.org>
>         http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Britta Glade Kantara Initiative 925-254-4233
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     LC mailing list
>     LC at kantarainitiative.org <mailto:LC at kantarainitiative.org>
>     http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Joni Brennan
> IEEE-ISTO
> Kantara Initiative
> Director of Technology Programs
> voice:+1 732-226-4223
> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org <http://ieee-isto.org>
> gtalk: jonibrennan
>
> Join the conversation on the community@ list -
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> LC mailing list
> LC at kantarainitiative.org
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>   

-- 
J. Trent Adams
=jtrentadams

Outreach Specialist, Trust & Identity
Internet Society
http://www.isoc.org

e) adams at isoc.org
o) 703-439-2149




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