[KI-LC] Fwd: [Staff] UMA F2F before IIW

Joni Brennan joni at ieee-isto.org
Thu Oct 29 14:25:44 EDT 2009


One part that concerns me is if we want to set a precedent that IP must be
accepted to be considered valid.  It might be ok to do so but I"m not sure
if it's a precedent we want to set.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Britta Glade <britta at kantarainitiative.org
> wrote:

> This is a key question to spinning up some discussion around the guidelines
> we wanted to develop for how to conduct non-WG meetings that are public (ie.
> an unconference session specific to one of your topics of interest).  I was
> thinking we'd covered it pretty well in our LC discussion yesterday, but was
> looking to create some guidelines that included some scenarios.  I think
> Eve's very succinct statement that "When a group *accepts* feedback, that
> is the point at which IPR must be invoked (and therefore reflected in the
> minutes with contributing individual noted, who had already completed the
> GPA in order to be participating in said formal meeting)."
>
> This is where we need some agreement as to what applies to what is being
> "accepted"--so to below: 1) use cases, 2) scenarios, 3) critique of spec
> text, 4) revisions, 5) etc?
>
> Thoughts?  This is probably something we need input from counsel on, but I
> wanted to get some thoughts first.  Thanks.
>
> --b.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>
>> This softened version looks great, though it will cause chairs to ask
>> next: What constitutes a contribution of unlicensed IP?  Would
>> scenarios and use cases (problem-space descriptions) carry IP, or
>> not?  I assume critiques of spec text and suggested revisions would.
>>
>>        Eve
>>
>> On 29 Oct 2009, at 4:24 AM, Brett McDowell wrote:
>>
>> > Attached is a redline with some suggested changes that emphasize the
>> > scenario of letting folks participate in the meeting even without
>> > signing a GPA.  I do not believe we must require them to either sign
>> > the GPA or be 100% silent in the meeting.  The only thing we are
>> > trying to prevent with this process is someone (knowingly or
>> > unknowingly) "submarining" unlicensed IP into the WG's output.
>> > There is a lot of opportunity for discussion participation in a
>> > meeting that doesn't come close to making an IP contribution to a
>> > work product.  I tried to emphasize that in this revision.
>> > <Kantara F2F participation policy v2_redline.doc>
>> > Brett McDowell  |  http://info.brettmcdowell.com  |
>> http://KantaraInitiative.org <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>>  >
>> > On Oct 28, 2009, at 7:07 PM, J. Trent Adams wrote:
>> >
>> >> Eve et al. -
>> >>
>> >> Following this thread, I've attached the proposed procedure
>> >> document for
>> >> handling events like the UMA meeting before IIW next week.
>> >>
>> >> Give it a read and see if you spot any issues needing to be
>> >> addressed.
>> >> Otherwise, it'd be great to feed Eve's reaction post-event into it
>> >> so we
>> >> can create a process doc for the wiki.
>> >>
>> >> Any thoughts?
>> >>
>> >> - Trent
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Eve Maler wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Begin forwarded message:
>> >>>
>> >>>> *From: *Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>>
>> >>>> *Date: *28 October 2009 12:37:18 PM PDT
>> >>>> *To: *"Dervla O'Reilly" <dervla at kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>> <mailto:dervla at kantarainitiative.org>>
>> >>>> *Cc: *Kantara Staff list <staff at kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>> <mailto:staff at kantarainitiative.org>>
>> >>>> *Subject: **Re: [Staff] UMA F2F before IIW*
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Great to know!  In case this is of interest as "pre-feedback"
>> >>>> before
>> >>>> having seen the written guidance, here is what I've done to
>> >>>> prepare.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - We're not anticipating a lot of walkups due to the nature,
>> >>>> timing,
>> >>>> and location of the meeting.  I'll blog it ahead of time (tomorrow)
>> >>>> and ask anyone who's thinking of attending to get in touch ASAP.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - I therefore haven't made a sign, but will watch carefully, in my
>> >>>> chair role, to ensure that I can positively identify every attendee
>> >>>> and put them into buckets: existing participant, new participant
>> >>>> who
>> >>>> has signed in some fashion, or new person who has agreed to
>> >>>> remain a
>> >>>> silent observer.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - I doctored the document you sent me with the following
>> >>>> handwritten
>> >>>> notations, and will make a few Xerox copies ahead of time:
>> >>>> . Page 1: I gave it a headline of *IPR "Liberty Option"* and also
>> >>>> wrote that it *Applies to participation in Kantara User-Managed
>> >>>> Access WG*
>> >>>> . Page 5 (last page): I added fields as follows (I still don't like
>> >>>> "active" vs. "observer" for the voting/non-voting distinction, and
>> >>>> thus haven't used those words! what would I call true passive
>> >>>> observers, then?...):
>> >>>>   - EMAIL FOR LIST SUBSCRIPTION: __________
>> >>>>   - PARTICIPATION LENGTH: [ ] ONGOING [ ] TODAY ONLY
>> >>>>   - PARTICIPATION STATUS: [ ] VOTING [ ] NON-VOTING
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - I printed out the current KI membership roster to have on hand (I
>> >>>> don't currently have the names of the primary reps, though)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Finally, I printed out some supporting materials to have on
>> >>>> hand in
>> >>>> case anyone wants chapter and verse:
>> >>>> . The online "Join This Group" page
>> >>>> . The charter for the group
>> >>>> . The IPR Options page
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let me know if I'm missing anything.  Thanks...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Eve
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 27 Oct 2009, at 12:00 PM, Dervla O'Reilly wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I sent my guidance draft to Roger and Trent, hope to have that
>> >>>>> turned around shortly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks
>> >>>>> Dervla
>> >>>>> ________________________
>> >>>>> Dervla O’Reilly
>> >>>>> Event & Membership Manager
>> >>>>> Kantara Initiative
>> >>>>> +1 415 731 4487 business
>> >>>>> +1 415 948 3650 mobile
>> >>>>> +1 509 757 4487 fax
>> >>>>> dervla[at]kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>>> http://www.kantarainitiative.org <http://www.kantarainitiative.org/
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Join the conversation by joining the community@ list
>> >>>>> - http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Brett McDowell wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Excellent point.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'd like to ask Dervla to take the lead on drafting that guidance
>> >>>>>> page (Dervla, can you take that on before IIW?).  We'll get
>> >>>>>> review
>> >>>>>> from Trent and Roger S. (as reps from the "two houses") and then
>> >>>>>> promote it as "policy".
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Brett McDowell | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>> >>>>>> <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/> | http://kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>>>> <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com
>> >>>>>> <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>   Good point! It sounds like we have enough material here for a
>> >>>>>>   guidance page on the wiki. :-) Anyone up for that?... With IIW
>> >>>>>>   coming and other conferences ahead, ad hoc KI group meetings
>> >>>>>>   are sure to follow, so guidance would be good to have.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>   Eve
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>   On 23 Oct 2009, at 8:14 AM, Brett McDowell wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>   And there's one more important point I don't see being
>> >>>>>>>   discussed... remember in Las Vegas we had those little
>> >>>>>>>   stickers? (don't worry, I'm not suggesting stickers)  I want
>> >>>>>>>   to remind everyone why we had the stickers.  It was so the
>> >>>>>>>   Chair knew who was in the room who HAD NOT SIGNED any GPA or
>> >>>>>>>   IPR agreement.  In other words, it's TOTALLY FINE to have
>> >>>>>>>   folks in the meeting who have signed nothing.  The only caveat
>> >>>>>>>   is the Chair needs to be mindful of those folks and exercise
>> >>>>>>>   their professional judgement to disallow them from
>> >>>>>>>   contributing what would be un-licensed (and perhaps
>> >>>>>>>   un-licensable) IPR into the groups' output.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>   Does that make sense?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>   P.S.
>> >>>>>>>   If you get attendees who are not members I would also like to
>> >>>>>>>   know so I can follow-up with them and start a recruiting
>> >>>>>>>   effort to bring them onboard.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>   Cheers!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>   Brett McDowell | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>> >>>>>>>   <http://info.brettmcdowell.com/> |
>> >>>>>>>   http://kantarainitiative.org <http://kantarainitiative.org/>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>   On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com
>> >>>>>>>   <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>       Thanks! In this case, maybe that list of primary members
>> >>>>>>>       would be helpful, just in case. But honestly, I don't
>> >>>>>>>       anticipate a lot of walkups since the IIW conference isn't
>> >>>>>>>       going on that day. (I'll get the word out to the community
>> >>>>>>>       that contacting me first is a good idea for new people.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>       Eve
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>       On 22 Oct 2009, at 6:41 PM, Joni Brennan wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Eve Maler
>> >>>>>>>>       <eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>           Ah, this document is just the "Option Liberty" text,
>> >>>>>>>>           is that right?
>> >>>>>>>>           Cool.  And I assume I can also mark on the form (or
>> >>>>>>>>           simply ask them)
>> >>>>>>>>           whether they want to be a voting ("active") or
>> >>>>>>>>           non-voting ("observer")
>> >>>>>>>>           participant going forward?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       That's not on the form Derv sent so yes you can ask them
>> >>>>>>>>       and mark it down.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>           If anyone whose company is a KI member but isn't yet
>> >>>>>>>>           a participant
>> >>>>>>>>           shows up, do I have to actually call their primary
>> >>>>>>>>           member person
>> >>>>>>>>           before I can let them in?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       Even if their company is a KI member and even if they are
>> >>>>>>>>       already in other groups we need the primary authority for
>> >>>>>>>>       any new group joined.  Yes, and they should be able to
>> >>>>>>>>       make that call for you - while you are with them I
>> >>>>>>>>       suppose.  That's how we did a few in LV.  If you know of
>> >>>>>>>>       any ahead of time that will help so maybe Dervla can
>> >>>>>>>>       reach out to them before the event.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       PS - we also used some judgement like for Gael who could
>> >>>>>>>>       not reach Aude in France.  We let him sign and got the
>> >>>>>>>>       approval afterward.  It's most important that they sign
>> >>>>>>>>       if they want to join the group or if they want to
>> >>>>>>>>       contribute IP.  If they just want to be in the room I
>> >>>>>>>>       would not force signing upon them.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       If they are not members of KI already then they can self
>> >>>>>>>>       assert their own authority to sign.  I know this is going
>> >>>>>>>>       to be a great event for you guys =).
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       thx!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>           Thanks...
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>                  Eve
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>           On 22 Oct 2009, at 4:23 PM, Dervla O'Reilly wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Eve,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Great stuff!
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> If you can make note of the attendance and share
>> >>>>>>>>           with me, that would
>> >>>>>>>>> be terrific.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Newcomers who have not already signed the GPA and
>> >>>>>>>>           are not members
>> >>>>>>>>> will need to sign the attached file.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I see you have a potential attendees list.  For
>> >>>>>>>>           those newcomers to
>> >>>>>>>>> your group who are already members, you will need
>> >>>>>>>>           to reach the
>> >>>>>>>>> primary contact of that member company.  I can send
>> >>>>>>>>           you the primary
>> >>>>>>>>> member list if you wish.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Otherwise, I think we're good.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>>>> Dervla
>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>>>>>> <KANTARA INITIATIVE IPR>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> You'll probably want to have reference to the
>> >>>>>>>>           primary contact
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Eve Maler wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi folks-- My UMA group is planning to hold a F2F
>> >>>>>>>>           meeting at the
>> >>>>>>>>>> Computer History Museum on Monday afternoon, 2 Nov
>> >>>>>>>>           2009; the IIW
>> >>>>>>>>>> organizers kindly agreed we could meet on-site
>> >>>>>>>>           that day.  I'm
>> >>>>>>>>>> prepared
>> >>>>>>>>>> to provide a sign and a signup sheet to manage the
>> >>>>>>>>           group
>> >>>>>>>>>> participation
>> >>>>>>>>>> agreement aspects.  Is there anything else I need
>> >>>>>>>>           to do?  Thanks!
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>    Eve
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Eve Maler
>> >>>>>>>>>> eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>> Staff mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>> Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>>>>>>           <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/staff
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>           Eve Maler
>> >>>>>>>>           eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>> >>>>>>>>           http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>           _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>           Staff mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>           Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>>>>>>           <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>> >>>>>>>>           http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/staff
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       --
>> >>>>>>>>       Joni Brennan
>> >>>>>>>>       IEEE-ISTO
>> >>>>>>>>       Kantara Initiative
>> >>>>>>>>       Director of Technology Programs
>> >>>>>>>>       voice:+1 732-226-4223
>> >>>>>>>>       email: joni @ ieee-isto.org <http://ieee-isto.org/>
>> >>>>>>>>       gtalk: jonibrennan
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>       Join the conversation on the community@ list -
>> >>>>>>>>       http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>       Eve Maler
>> >>>>>>>       eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>> >>>>>>>       http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>       _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>       Staff mailing list
>> >>>>>>>       Staff at kantarainitiative.org
>> >>>>>>>       <mailto:Staff at kantarainitiative.org>
>> >>>>>>>       http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/staff
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>   Eve Maler
>> >>>>>>   eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>> >>>>>>   http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Eve Maler
>> >>>> eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>> >>>> http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Eve Maler
>> >>> eve at xmlgrrl.com <mailto:eve at xmlgrrl.com>
>> >>> http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> LC mailing list
>> >>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>> >>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> J. Trent Adams
>> >> =jtrentadams
>> >>
>> >> Outreach Specialist, Trust & Identity
>> >> Internet Society
>> >> http://www.isoc.org
>> >>
>> >> e) adams at isoc.org
>> >> o) 703-439-2149
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> <Kantara Initiative Join Meeting Process at
>> >> events.doc>_______________________________________________
>> >> LC mailing list
>> >> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>> >> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>> >
>>
>>
>> Eve Maler
>> eve at xmlgrrl.com
>>  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LC mailing list
>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Britta Glade Kantara Initiative 925-254-4233
>
> _______________________________________________
> LC mailing list
> LC at kantarainitiative.org
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc
>
>


-- 
Joni Brennan
IEEE-ISTO
Kantara Initiative
Director of Technology Programs
voice:+1 732-226-4223
email: joni @ ieee-isto.org
gtalk: jonibrennan

Join the conversation on the community@ list -
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