[KI-LC] Strawman language for amending the motion to amend the Operating Procedures
kantara at bobpinheiro.com
Thu Oct 15 16:45:27 EDT 2009
If the voting roll is locked upon the call for votes, this would mean
that the criteria for who is allowed to vote in an electronic/email
ballot would be different from the eligibility criteria for voice votes
taken during meetings/calls. I don't think anyone has put forth a
rationale for why the voting criteria should be different for voice
votes versus electronic votes.
According to the Operating Procedures, "/Voting status may be reacquired
by attending a meeting of the LC." /Voting status must therefore be
reacquired at the *beginning* of the meeting, to be consistent with
Section 3.7, which says that "/all Participants present at a WG meeting
are voting members of the WG/."
So any member in non-voting status can vote on a measure during a
meeting/call merely by showing up for the meeting, regardless of
previous voting status. On the other hand, the OP dictates that someone
in non-voting status when an electronic vote is called would not be able
to vote, period.
If voting status can be reacquired merely by casting a roll-call vote
during a meeting (since attendance at the meeting restores voting
status), shouldn't it be just as easy to reacquire voting status for
casting an electronic vote?
Why not just allow any member to cast an electronic vote, regardless of
previous status? Since there is effectively is no prohibition against
roll-call voice voting based on previous status, the same ought to hold
true for electronic votes.
This would necessitate a change to Section 6.2, which requires that "the
ballot must state both the minimum number of votes that must be cast and
the percentage of “yes” votes required for approval of the measure." I
don't quite understand why this provision is necessary. Why do voters
need to know this when casting their ballots? The validity of the
electronic vote will be determined after the voting period is over and
the "new" number of voting members is determined by adding the number of
previous voting members to the number of previous non-voting members now
casting a vote.
BTW, I raised some of these issues in an email to this list
on Sept. 12.
Salzberg, Kenneth M wrote:
> I agree it is an issue in the operating procedures.
> My own opinion is that having the voting members undefined during an electronic ballot is NOT a good idea and agree with the provision you call out (that is 6.2 should not be changed).
> Ken Salzberg, Technology Manager
> Integrated Platforms Research, Intel Labs
> ken.salzberg at intel.com 503.264.8276 JF2-58
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Trent Adams [mailto:adams at isoc.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:49 AM
> To: Salzberg, Kenneth M
> Cc: LC at kantarainitiative.org
> Subject: Re: [KI-LC] Strawman language for amending the motion to amend the Operating Procedures
> Ken -
> Assuming there's nothing in the Bylaws, should we be concerned about
> section 6.2 in the Operating Procedures?
> * The ballot must state both the minimum number of votes that must be
> cast and the percentage of “yes” votes required for approval of the measure.
> If we don't know the number of voting members prior to sending out the
> call for votes (in order to calculate the number of "yes" votes
> required), we'd probably need to change this provision.
> IMO - I would prefer that the voting roll be locked upon the call for
> votes, rather than allowing people to opt back in 48-hours prior to the
> close of the ballot.
> - Trent
> Salzberg, Kenneth M wrote:
>> Took a quick look at the by-laws and I did not see anything that would need to be changed. The execution policy of the electronic ballot is left open and would make sense to define in the Operating Procedures if required.
>> Ken Salzberg, Technology Manager
>> Integrated Platforms Research, Intel Labs
>> ken.salzberg at intel.com 503.264.8276 JF2-58
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org [mailto:lc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of J. Trent Adams
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:13 AM
>> To: LC at kantarainitiative.org
>> Subject: Re: [KI-LC] Strawman language for amending the motion to amend the Operating Procedures
>> All -
>> Apologies for not being on the call yesterday, but here are a couple
>> points that I hope were discussed:
>> 1. The BoT approved the language that we
>> crafted (with one minor difference to the
>> term "Members").
>> 2. Why weren't the issues raised below
>> brought up at that time before we
>> sent them to the BoT?
>> 3. If we require any changes to be made,
>> we will be restarting the clock. They
>> go back to the BoT for approval, then
>> back to the LC to run the all-member
>> I assume that everyone on the LC call yesterday is comfortable with the
>> delays involved. That basically means we're going from about a 7-day
>> closure on this to something a month (or more) from now.
>> Given that people are OK with the delay, I do believe that there's an
>> issue needing to be addressed in the line:
>> "... for the purposes of quorum in an electronic ballot, quorate shall
>> be determined based on all members of voting status 48 hours prior to
>> the close of the vote."
>> This may necessitate a change to the Bylaws governing electronic
>> voting. Has someone already looked into this?
>> - Trent
>> Joe Andrieu wrote:
>>> In today's call there were two issues brought up with the first item of
>>> the motion entitled "Approval of Amendments to Operating Procedures for
>>> All Member Ballot". Here is an excerpt of the relevant portion of that
>>> The following amendments to the Kantara Initiative Operating Procedures
>>> (version 1.0), as previously approved by the Board of Trustees, are
>>> hereby approved by the Leadership Council for submission to an All
>>> Member Ballot:
>>> i. Add the following text as the third paragraph in section 2.6:
>>> "For the purpose of maintaining a reasonable ability to achieve Quorum,
>>> any Voting Member of the LC who fails to attend two consecutive meetings
>>> of the LC may, at the discretion of the Chair, be re-classified as a
>>> non-voting member. Voting status may be reacquired by attending a
>>> meeting of the LC. In the case of an electronic vote of the LC, if the
>>> electronic vote is initiated while a member is in non-voting status, the
>>> member may not vote in that electronic vote."
>>> I think its a fair summary to say the two issues are as follows:
>>> 1. Ambiguity around reacquiring voting status. The word "may" could mean
>>> that the reacquisition is at the chair's discretion (similar to the loss
>>> of status). The timing is also ambiguous: does the status resumes
>>> immediately for that meeting?
>>> 2. There is a discrepancy between the ease of participating in a live
>>> meeting and in an electronic one. For a live meeting, one can--upon
>>> notice of the topic to be voted upon--simply show up and be counted.
>>> However, the electronic vote precludes a non-voting member from a
>>> similar "on-demand" participation in the vote.
>>> For #1, there seemed to be a consensus that it would be at the member's
>>> discretion, not the chair's, and that the status would be in effect for
>>> the meeting at which it is reclaimed.
>>> For #2, there was less discussion, so perhaps we don't have consensus.
>>> However, the issue itself suggests a desire to find a way to allow a
>>> similar "on-demand" approach for electronic ballots.
>>> As a strawman suggestion, here is a possible motion to amend the motion
>>> currently on the table. If there's sufficient agreement to some edited
>>> version of this, we can turn it into a proper motion for the next LC
>>> Motion that we replace
>>> "Voting status may be reacquired by attending a meeting of the LC. In
>>> the case of an electronic vote of the LC, if the electronic vote is
>>> initiated while a member is in non-voting status, the member may not
>>> vote in that electronic vote."
>>> "Voting status shall be automatically reinstated for any non-voting
>>> member by either (a) attending a meeting of the LC and electing to
>>> reacquire it at the roll call of said meeting or (b) in the case of an
>>> electronic vote of the LC, sending an email to the LC email list,
>>> electing to reacquire voting status, no less than 48 hours prior to the
>>> close of the first electronic vote for which that status would apply;
>>> for the purposes of quorum in an electronic ballot, quorate shall be
>>> determined based on all members of voting status 48 hours prior to the
>>> close of the vote."
>>> That's it. The language probably needs some help, but I figured putting
>>> something out there might kickstart our thinking. In particular, I'm not
>>> sure if the 48 hour window matters, but it seemed like some cutoff would
>>> simplify last minute quorate questions.
>> J. Trent Adams
>> Outreach Specialist, Trust & Identity
>> Internet Society
>> e) adams at isoc.org
>> o) 703-439-2149
>> LC mailing list
>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
> J. Trent Adams
> Outreach Specialist, Trust & Identity
> Internet Society
> e) adams at isoc.org
> o) 703-439-2149
> LC mailing list
> LC at kantarainitiative.org
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