[KI-LC] [BoT] Revised DRAFT: Policy for Joining Groups and Group Discussion Lists

Roger Martin roger.martin at corp.aol.com
Tue Jul 7 08:03:28 PDT 2009


Trent,

see inline below.

   ....RogerM

J. Trent Adams wrote:
> Roger -
>
> In order to present the policy to the LC for approval on Wednesday's
> call, I'm proof-reading the version on the wiki, and making sure it
> closed the open issues from the threads:
>
> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/x/BACh
>
> Assuming that this is the most up-to-date version (so we can simply
> point everyone at it rather than continuing to circulate docs), I do
> have a couple last-minute comments:
>   
[RM]  Yes,  http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/x/BACh is the most 
recent, up-to-date version.

>  1. It looks like the term "Contributor" still shows up
>      in the second bullet of Section 4:
>
>      "Anyone may Subscribe to any List with the
>      provision that only Contributors may post to
>      the List."
>
>      Am I right in assuming that this should be
>      updated to read:
>
>      "Anyone may Subscribe to any List with the
>      provision that only Participants of the Group
>      may post to the List."
>   
[RM]  Yes, it should be "Participants".  I had that change in the 
Word/PDF version but missed it when I updated the Wiki version.  Thanks 
for catching it.

>  2. As there is now a distinction between "administer"
>      and "moderate" called out in Section 5, can we
>      add the definitions for each that are based on what
>      Brett pulled from the mail software?  Here are my
>      suggestions:
>   
[RM]  I don't see the necessity of adding definitions for "administer" 
and "moderate" but have no objection to doing do.
 
 Would it be correct to define "Moderate: the same as "Administer" with 
the exception that an Administrator cannot change List configuration 
variable."  (I am assuming that is correct.  Is it?)
>      "Administer: Full control of the Group List
>      functionality /such as changing List configuration
>      variables, tend to pending requests, including the
>      approval or rejection of held subscription requests,
>      and disposing of held postings, etc."/
>
>      "Moderate: Limited control of the Group List
>      functionality /such as tending to pending requests,
>      including the approval or rejection of held
>      subscription requests, and disposing of held
>      postings, etc./ Changing List configuration variables
>      are not included."
>
>  3. Finally, how would you suggest addressing the issue
>      that Lucy raised:
>
>      "with this caveat, list administrators can and should
>      forward on the the list any announcements that would
>      be on interest. This should clearly be a forward (over
>      the admin's email address) and not an approved
>      posting over the original address."
>
>      I'm assuming that what she's talking about is the
>      forwarding of publicly-available information, and
>      thus isn't encumbered by some other IPR regime.
>      In this case, does this need to be called out in the
>      policy, or is it blatantly obvious this is OK to do?
>   
[RM]  I don't think this needs to be included in the "Policy for Joining 
Groups and Group Discussion Lists."  It is, however, useful operating 
guidance that perhaps could be articulated elsewhere.

> Looking forward to resolution.
>
> Thanks,
> Trent
>     
>
> Roger Martin wrote:
>   
>> I don't believe that additional text is necessary since the Chair can
>> normally delegate any duty. 
>>
>> However, if you think it should be there, go ahead and add it to the
>> wiki text.
>>
>>    ..rogerM
>>
>> Brett McDowell wrote:
>>     
>>> How about we add a parenthetical modifier to your proposed text so it
>>> reads "moderated by the Chair of the Group (or his/her delegate)" ?
>>>
>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Roger Martin<roger.martin at corp.aol.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Based on this discussion it appears we have agreed to the following changes:
>>>>
>>>> Reword the first bullet in Section (5) to read:
>>>> * All Lists are administered by Staff and moderated by the secretary Chair
>>>> of the Group to which the List is associated.
>>>>
>>>> Delete the sixth bullet in section (5)
>>>> * Group Lists are not moderated.
>>>>
>>>> I have made these (and my original rewrite) changes to the wiki:
>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/LC/Groups+Email+Discussion+List+Policy
>>>>
>>>>    ...rogerM
>>>>
>>>> Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And I'd add to that... if someone attempts to post to the list and the
>>>> topic is appropriate/legitimate, I would hope/encourage the Chair to
>>>> forward it to community@ for a "real" discussion (not to mention
>>>> reaching out to that person and suggesting they actually join the
>>>> Group).
>>>>
>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Lucy Lynch<lynch at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 ,
>>>>
>>>> with this caveat, list administrators can and should forward
>>>> on the the list any announcements that would be on interest.
>>>> This should clearly be a forward (over the admin's email address)
>>>> and not an approved posting over the original address.
>>>>
>>>> Lucy Lynch
>>>> Director, Trust and Identity Initiatives
>>>> Internet Society (ISOC )
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given all the issues I've noticed being raised in the development of this
>>>> policy, it's probably best to simply not allow any posting to the lists
>>>> from
>>>> non-participants in the group.
>>>> How do folks feel about tightening this up to that level?
>>>>
>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Joni Brennan <joni at ieee-isto.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Brett.
>>>>
>>>> I believe it would benefit us to develop operational policies (similar to
>>>> what the LC has done) to explain the implications and responsibilities
>>>> associated with the WG/DG Roles.  This policy would answer questions like
>>>> -
>>>> When can I 'accept' a rejected message'?
>>>>
>>>> Also, as there is no DG Secretary role this item would fall under the DG
>>>> Vice-chair or Chair responsibilties.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, we should consider putting a requested change in the LC queue to
>>>> update the Operating Procedures to reflect this item under the
>>>> appropriate
>>>> role duties.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Joni
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Brett McDowell
>>>> <email at brettmcdowell.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is what the MailMan software documentation says in this regard:
>>>>
>>>> *There are two ownership roles associated with each mailing list. The
>>>> **list
>>>> administrators** are the people who have ultimate control over all
>>>> parameters of this mailing list. They are able to change any list
>>>> configuration variable available through these administration web
>>>> pages.*
>>>>
>>>> *The **list moderators** have more limited permissions; they are not
>>>> able
>>>> to change any list configuration variable, but they are allowed to tend
>>>> to
>>>> pending administration requests, including approving or rejecting held
>>>> subscription requests, and disposing of held postings. Of course, the
>>>> **list
>>>> administrators** can also tend to pending requests.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Roger Martin
>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I'm out of my field when it comes to mail list administration and
>>>> standard terminology
>>>>
>>>> Would anyone on this thread care to enlighten me (us).
>>>>
>>>> Do we need to define those terms?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    ....roger M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> J. Trent Adams wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Roger -
>>>>
>>>> In order to avoid any misunderstandings, would it make sense to define
>>>> "Moderate" and "Administer"?
>>>>
>>>> - Trent
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Roger Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Joni,
>>>>
>>>> I had a conversation with Brett about this issue because I was not
>>>> understanding the motivations for proposing this change.
>>>>
>>>> Based on that discussion, I understand the motivation for this change
>>>> to be that:
>>>>
>>>>    * Staff will administer all Lists, but there is a valid concern
>>>>      that a requirement to have Staff moderate all Lists will be a
>>>>      significant burden on Staff resources.
>>>>
>>>>    * We can configure each List so any email received from a
>>>>      non-Participant gets an auto-reply that says "You do not have
>>>>      permission to post to this List.  To do so, you must sign the
>>>>      Participation Agreement for this Group." (or something similar)
>>>>
>>>>    * It may be helpful for the leadership of a Group to know (1) who
>>>>      joins and who leaves a list as an Observer, and (2) who attempts
>>>>      to post as an Observer.  As a result, you proposed that a member
>>>>      of the Group Leadership (Group secretary) be assigned moderator
>>>>      status in order to be able to track this.
>>>>
>>>> Under the Kantara Initiative Bylaws, a Group is not required to have a
>>>> secretary.  However, the Bylaws do state that when "a WG does not have
>>>> a secretary it is the responsibility of the Chair to ensure that those
>>>> duties."
>>>>
>>>> Given the above, I believe the following changes will be sufficient to
>>>> achieve what you are proposing:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Reword the first bullet in Section (5) to read:
>>>>      * All Lists are administered by Staff and moderated by the
>>>>      secretary of the Group to which the List is associated.
>>>>
>>>>   2. Delete the sixth bullet in section (5)
>>>>      * Group Lists are not moderated.
>>>>
>>>>   ...rogerM
>>>>
>>>> Joni Brennan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Roger,
>>>>
>>>> I have drafted the suggested addition below:
>>>>
>>>> Section 5
>>>> * All Lists are administered and moderated by the Staff.  In addition
>>>> to the Staff moderator, each list will be moderated by the Secretary
>>>> officer responsible for that list's associated group.  The Secretary
>>>> moderator function provides an additional layer of operational
>>>> information to the officers of each group.
>>>>
>>>> Please feel free to word smith my suggestion as you may see fit.
>>>> Also, as an FYI to the group, we did find the bug causing Rogers edit
>>>> access woes and have resolved the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Joni
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Roger Martin
>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com <mailto:roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    I have attached the revised draft of the "Policy for Joining
>>>>    Groups and Group Discussion Lists" based on the discussions of
>>>>    the past two days.  I still don't have edit permission on the
>>>>    wiki page, but will post the new draft there when I do.
>>>>
>>>>    Additional Discussion:
>>>>
>>>>    1.  Joni posted a proposal to one officer from each WG and DG a a
>>>>    moderator of any Lists associated with that WG or DG.  It's not
>>>>    clear from the email discussion what the resolution of this
>>>>    proposal is.  As a result I did not make any changes to the
>>>>    text.  If we need to make that change, would someone please post
>>>>    the specific text changes to be made?
>>>>
>>>>    2.  Are there any further edits needed before we move to adopt
>>>>    this as a Kantara Initiative policy?
>>>>
>>>>       ...rogerM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    /--
>>>>    ******************************************
>>>>    Roger Martin, Director of Standards
>>>>         AOL
>>>>         22260 Pacific Blvd    41A:A03
>>>>         Dulles, VA 20166
>>>>    email: roger.martin at corp.aol.com <mailto:roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>>             AIM:       rjmartin99
>>>>             phone:  703-265-6203
>>>>             mobile: 703-389-1547
>>>>    *******************************************/
>>>>
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>>>> <Trustees at kantarainitiative.org>
>>>>
>>>>  http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/trustees_kantarainitiative.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joni Brennan
>>>> IEEE-ISTO
>>>> Liberty Alliance Project
>>>> Director of Operations
>>>> voice:+1 732-226-4223
>>>> email: joni @ projectliberty.org <http://projectliberty.org>
>>>> <http://projectliberty.org>
>>>> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org <http://ieee-isto.org>
>>>> <http://ieee-isto.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joni Brennan
>>>> IEEE-ISTO
>>>> Liberty Alliance Project
>>>> Director of Operations
>>>> voice:+1 732-226-4223
>>>> email: joni @ projectliberty.org
>>>> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>   
>>>       
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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>
>   
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