[KI-LC] [BoT] Revised DRAFT: Policy for Joining Groups and Group Discussion Lists

J. Trent Adams adams at isoc.org
Mon Jul 6 12:10:31 PDT 2009


Roger -

In order to present the policy to the LC for approval on Wednesday's
call, I'm proof-reading the version on the wiki, and making sure it
closed the open issues from the threads:

http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/x/BACh

Assuming that this is the most up-to-date version (so we can simply
point everyone at it rather than continuing to circulate docs), I do
have a couple last-minute comments:

 1. It looks like the term "Contributor" still shows up
     in the second bullet of Section 4:

     "Anyone may Subscribe to any List with the
     provision that only Contributors may post to
     the List."

     Am I right in assuming that this should be
     updated to read:

     "Anyone may Subscribe to any List with the
     provision that only Participants of the Group
     may post to the List."

 2. As there is now a distinction between "administer"
     and "moderate" called out in Section 5, can we
     add the definitions for each that are based on what
     Brett pulled from the mail software?  Here are my
     suggestions:

     "Administer: Full control of the Group List
     functionality such as changing List configuration
     variables, tend to pending requests, including the
     approval or rejection of held subscription requests,
     and disposing of held postings, etc."

     "Moderate: Limited control of the Group List
     functionality such as tending to pending requests,
     including the approval or rejection of held
     subscription requests, and disposing of held
     postings, etc. Changing List configuration variables
     are not included."

 3. Finally, how would you suggest addressing the issue
     that Lucy raised:

     "with this caveat, list administrators can and should
     forward on the the list any announcements that would
     be on interest. This should clearly be a forward (over
     the admin's email address) and not an approved
     posting over the original address."

     I'm assuming that what she's talking about is the
     forwarding of publicly-available information, and
     thus isn't encumbered by some other IPR regime.
     In this case, does this need to be called out in the
     policy, or is it blatantly obvious this is OK to do?

Looking forward to resolution.

Thanks,
Trent
    

Roger Martin wrote:
> I don't believe that additional text is necessary since the Chair can
> normally delegate any duty. 
>
> However, if you think it should be there, go ahead and add it to the
> wiki text.
>
>    ..rogerM
>
> Brett McDowell wrote:
>> How about we add a parenthetical modifier to your proposed text so it
>> reads "moderated by the Chair of the Group (or his/her delegate)" ?
>>
>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Roger Martin<roger.martin at corp.aol.com> wrote:
>>   
>>> Based on this discussion it appears we have agreed to the following changes:
>>>
>>> Reword the first bullet in Section (5) to read:
>>> * All Lists are administered by Staff and moderated by the secretary Chair
>>> of the Group to which the List is associated.
>>>
>>> Delete the sixth bullet in section (5)
>>> * Group Lists are not moderated.
>>>
>>> I have made these (and my original rewrite) changes to the wiki:
>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/LC/Groups+Email+Discussion+List+Policy
>>>
>>>    ...rogerM
>>>
>>> Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>
>>> And I'd add to that... if someone attempts to post to the list and the
>>> topic is appropriate/legitimate, I would hope/encourage the Chair to
>>> forward it to community@ for a "real" discussion (not to mention
>>> reaching out to that person and suggesting they actually join the
>>> Group).
>>>
>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Lucy Lynch<lynch at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> +1 ,
>>>
>>> with this caveat, list administrators can and should forward
>>> on the the list any announcements that would be on interest.
>>> This should clearly be a forward (over the admin's email address)
>>> and not an approved posting over the original address.
>>>
>>> Lucy Lynch
>>> Director, Trust and Identity Initiatives
>>> Internet Society (ISOC )
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Given all the issues I've noticed being raised in the development of this
>>> policy, it's probably best to simply not allow any posting to the lists
>>> from
>>> non-participants in the group.
>>> How do folks feel about tightening this up to that level?
>>>
>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Joni Brennan <joni at ieee-isto.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Brett.
>>>
>>> I believe it would benefit us to develop operational policies (similar to
>>> what the LC has done) to explain the implications and responsibilities
>>> associated with the WG/DG Roles.  This policy would answer questions like
>>> -
>>> When can I 'accept' a rejected message'?
>>>
>>> Also, as there is no DG Secretary role this item would fall under the DG
>>> Vice-chair or Chair responsibilties.
>>>
>>> Finally, we should consider putting a requested change in the LC queue to
>>> update the Operating Procedures to reflect this item under the
>>> appropriate
>>> role duties.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Joni
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Brett McDowell
>>> <email at brettmcdowell.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is what the MailMan software documentation says in this regard:
>>>
>>> *There are two ownership roles associated with each mailing list. The
>>> **list
>>> administrators** are the people who have ultimate control over all
>>> parameters of this mailing list. They are able to change any list
>>> configuration variable available through these administration web
>>> pages.*
>>>
>>> *The **list moderators** have more limited permissions; they are not
>>> able
>>> to change any list configuration variable, but they are allowed to tend
>>> to
>>> pending administration requests, including approving or rejecting held
>>> subscription requests, and disposing of held postings. Of course, the
>>> **list
>>> administrators** can also tend to pending requests.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Roger Martin
>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I'm out of my field when it comes to mail list administration and
>>> standard terminology
>>>
>>> Would anyone on this thread care to enlighten me (us).
>>>
>>> Do we need to define those terms?
>>>
>>>
>>>    ....roger M
>>>
>>>
>>> J. Trent Adams wrote:
>>>
>>> Roger -
>>>
>>> In order to avoid any misunderstandings, would it make sense to define
>>> "Moderate" and "Administer"?
>>>
>>> - Trent
>>>
>>>
>>> Roger Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  Joni,
>>>
>>> I had a conversation with Brett about this issue because I was not
>>> understanding the motivations for proposing this change.
>>>
>>> Based on that discussion, I understand the motivation for this change
>>> to be that:
>>>
>>>    * Staff will administer all Lists, but there is a valid concern
>>>      that a requirement to have Staff moderate all Lists will be a
>>>      significant burden on Staff resources.
>>>
>>>    * We can configure each List so any email received from a
>>>      non-Participant gets an auto-reply that says "You do not have
>>>      permission to post to this List.  To do so, you must sign the
>>>      Participation Agreement for this Group." (or something similar)
>>>
>>>    * It may be helpful for the leadership of a Group to know (1) who
>>>      joins and who leaves a list as an Observer, and (2) who attempts
>>>      to post as an Observer.  As a result, you proposed that a member
>>>      of the Group Leadership (Group secretary) be assigned moderator
>>>      status in order to be able to track this.
>>>
>>> Under the Kantara Initiative Bylaws, a Group is not required to have a
>>> secretary.  However, the Bylaws do state that when "a WG does not have
>>> a secretary it is the responsibility of the Chair to ensure that those
>>> duties."
>>>
>>> Given the above, I believe the following changes will be sufficient to
>>> achieve what you are proposing:
>>>
>>>   1. Reword the first bullet in Section (5) to read:
>>>      * All Lists are administered by Staff and moderated by the
>>>      secretary of the Group to which the List is associated.
>>>
>>>   2. Delete the sixth bullet in section (5)
>>>      * Group Lists are not moderated.
>>>
>>>   ...rogerM
>>>
>>> Joni Brennan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi Roger,
>>>
>>> I have drafted the suggested addition below:
>>>
>>> Section 5
>>> * All Lists are administered and moderated by the Staff.  In addition
>>> to the Staff moderator, each list will be moderated by the Secretary
>>> officer responsible for that list's associated group.  The Secretary
>>> moderator function provides an additional layer of operational
>>> information to the officers of each group.
>>>
>>> Please feel free to word smith my suggestion as you may see fit.
>>> Also, as an FYI to the group, we did find the bug causing Rogers edit
>>> access woes and have resolved the issue.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Joni
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Roger Martin
>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com <mailto:roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I have attached the revised draft of the "Policy for Joining
>>>    Groups and Group Discussion Lists" based on the discussions of
>>>    the past two days.  I still don't have edit permission on the
>>>    wiki page, but will post the new draft there when I do.
>>>
>>>    Additional Discussion:
>>>
>>>    1.  Joni posted a proposal to one officer from each WG and DG a a
>>>    moderator of any Lists associated with that WG or DG.  It's not
>>>    clear from the email discussion what the resolution of this
>>>    proposal is.  As a result I did not make any changes to the
>>>    text.  If we need to make that change, would someone please post
>>>    the specific text changes to be made?
>>>
>>>    2.  Are there any further edits needed before we move to adopt
>>>    this as a Kantara Initiative policy?
>>>
>>>       ...rogerM
>>>
>>>
>>>    /--
>>>    ******************************************
>>>    Roger Martin, Director of Standards
>>>         AOL
>>>         22260 Pacific Blvd    41A:A03
>>>         Dulles, VA 20166
>>>    email: roger.martin at corp.aol.com <mailto:roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>             AIM:       rjmartin99
>>>             phone:  703-265-6203
>>>             mobile: 703-389-1547
>>>    *******************************************/
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joni Brennan
>>> IEEE-ISTO
>>> Liberty Alliance Project
>>> Director of Operations
>>> voice:+1 732-226-4223
>>> email: joni @ projectliberty.org <http://projectliberty.org>
>>> <http://projectliberty.org>
>>> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org <http://ieee-isto.org>
>>> <http://ieee-isto.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> --
>>> Joni Brennan
>>> IEEE-ISTO
>>> Liberty Alliance Project
>>> Director of Operations
>>> voice:+1 732-226-4223
>>> email: joni @ projectliberty.org
>>> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org
>>>
>>>
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>>>     
>>
>>   
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-- 
J. Trent Adams
=jtrentadams

Outreach Specialist, Trust & Identity
Internet Society
http://www.isoc.org

e) adams at isoc.org
o) 703-439-2149





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