[DG-IDoT] Common identity standard

j stollman stollman.j at gmail.com
Fri Jul 24 12:20:47 CDT 2015


I am with Alessandro in the complexity of this solution in the real world.


   1. An iPhone is a collection of IoT devices (camera, audio recorder,
   touch screen, telephone, computer, etc.).  Should each of these have its
   own "good key pair"?  If not how do we handle the sale of just the camera
   by the same OEM who sells the camera to Apple?  Do we need a way to
   aggregate devices?
   2. Separately, what constitutes a "good key pair"?  Will all of the many
   unenlightened, non-high-tech manufacturers in the world participate?  What
   is the likelihood that they will create duplicate key pairs when there are
   billions of devices?  We tend to consider that we are servicing an
   environment where everyone is paying attention to international standards.
   Standards in markets as broad as we are discussion take decades to become
   pervasive.  How many types of screws do we have?  It isn't just metric
   versus "standard."  Screws differ in diameter, pitch, head shape (flat,
   pan, etc.), and driver type (straight blade, phillips, head, star, etc.).
   And then there are custom screws.  In IoT we will have hobbyist-types
   creating devices, along with old-line manufacturers.  It isn't just an
   Apply and Samsung world.
   3. To Ingo's comment about relationships, how do we track changes in
   those relationships without creating a massive infrastructure?  What
   happens when company A has a device that is used by employees A1, A2, and
   A3, sells the device to company B for use by B7, B8, and B9?

Jeff



---------------------------------
Jeff Stollman
stollman.j at gmail.com
1 202.683.8699

Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.
Science advances one funeral at a time.
                                    Max Planck

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 7:34 AM, Alessandro Festa <afesta at alfweb.com> wrote:

> Hi Nat,
> related to the private key embeded by manufacturer I am wondering who
> would embed what in the case of a multi-manufacturer.
> use case:
> 1) thing created by original manufacturer : embed a priv key
> 2) thing crafted/customized (oem) by second manufacturer : embed a priv key
>
> when thing will need to act on behalf I expect to reflect a 1 to many
> relationship at this point and so I'll need as user to decide the degree of
> relationship between the various keys or only one single key pair will be
> allowed and this means we need to define a hierarchical policy to decide
> who will embed what.
>
> I immagine an onion ring model based on user consent and relationship
> constrain: user to seller, seller to manufacturer (original or oem),
> manufacturer (oem) to manufacturer
>
>
> Alex
>
> -
> Alessandro Festa
> website:http://alfweb.com
> twitter:@festaatdell
> email:afesta at alfweb.com
>
>
>
>   Il Venerdì 24 Luglio 2015 13:10, Paul Madsen <pmadsen at pingidentity.com>
> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>  Hi nat, I would follow on to your steps below
>
> On 7/24/15 4:56 AM, Nat Sakimura wrote:
>
> Yeah, it is nice, but WSDL would be too big.
> Remember that sending 1 byte over the radio takes as much power as
> encrypting 1000 bytes. Also, memory and processing power is becoming cheap,
> so in IoT context, we should probably treat "minimizing the radio packet"
> as the priority.
>
>  As to the identification of the things are cocerned, the viable model
> that I imagine is as follows:
>
>
>    1. The device manufacutrer creates a good keypair and embeds the
>    private key (and its key thumbprint) in the device.
>    2. For device authentication, use the key to sign the message.
>
>   When acting on behalf of a user
>
> 3. Authenticated user facilitates delivery of tokens to device
> 4. Device authenticates to AS using embedded keys in order to obtain tokens
> 5. Device uses tokens to authenticate to cloud endpoints, other device etc
>
> Tokens thereby reflect 'relationship' of user & device
>
>   Nat
>
>
> 2015-07-22 1:33 GMT+09:00 Aninda Bhunia <abhunia at inc38.com>:
>
> It would be interesting if we could create a standard that would allow
> even non IP devices to publish their identity through a wsdl type
> structure. Even if they are non IP at some point in their upwards
> relationship hierarchy their master gateway would be IP based and could be
> responsible for publishing the identity wsdls for the entities it brokers.
> Thoughts ?
>  On Jul 21, 2015 11:52 AM, "Joni Brennan" <joni at kantarainitiative.org>
> wrote:
>
> Noting I have no vote =)
>
>  I agree with Paul and others regarding discovery as the key initial
> mechanism.  I believe Ingo has also noted this in the summaries from IDoT.
> Sal mentions NMAP / SNMP are there other exiting approaches?  (apologies if
> this has been discussed in detail already)
>
>  - Joni
>
>    Best Regards,
>
> Joni Brennan
> Kantara Initiative | Executive Director
> email: joni @ kantarainitiative.org
>
>  Connecting Identity for a more trustworthy Internet - Overview
> <http://www.slideshare.net/kantarainitiative/kantara-overview2014-37969351>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Salvatore D'Agostino <sal at idmachines.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Other than ip devices?  In that case there are mechanisms support
> scanning ( eg NMAP) or SNMP that have been around for a while these are
> typically not exactly API friendly but do provide a starting point and we
> make good use in our offerings.
>
> Salvatore D'Agostino
> IDmachines LLC |1264 Beacon Street, #5
> Brookline, MA. 02446 | USA
> http://www.idmachines.com
>
> On Jul 21, 2015, at 10:46 AM, Paul Madsen <pmadsen at pingidentity.com>
> wrote:
>
>   (one of) what is needed is a standardized mechanism for devices to
> present their identity (and those humans for which they are acting) to
> other things, cloud endpoints & applications
>
>
>
> On 7/16/15 2:38 PM, Ranjan Jain (ranjain) wrote:
>
> Hey y’all,
> Hope everyone is doing well. Just wanted to bounce a question which I’m
> consistently getting asked around Identity, IoT perspective. Is there any
> industry standard in place or in works which can be used as a common
> standard across multiple identities. What I mean by this is that humans
> have SSN as an identity while a thermostat may have serial number while a
> network device may have a Mac ID as their identity. So, while individually
> they all have their own identity standard, when in the IoT world, all these
> entities start interacting with each other, how do we translate one
> identity into another or how will one identity interact with another
> identity in a standards way?
>
>  Thanks
> Ranjan
>
>
>
>  *Ranjan Jain*
> ARCHITECT.IT <http://architect.it/>
> Information Technology
> ranjain at cisco.com
> Phone: *+1 408 853 4396*
> Mobile: *+1 408 627 9538*
>  *Cisco Systems, Inc.*
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>  --
> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
> http://nat.sakimura.org/
> @_nat_en
>
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