[DG-BSC] FYI

Thorsten H. Niebuhr [WedaCon GmbH] tniebuhr at wedacon.net
Mon Aug 29 17:27:21 CDT 2016


Which (for me) translates into the (open) question (and I really dont
wanna be the advocatis diaboli):

Should we split and discuss SmartContracts independently from BlockChain
/DLT (here: in respect to identity management) ?

SmartContracts are discussed and worked on already in the consensus
field (esp. CommonAccord) with great results/findings.

Thesis: SmartContracts are just a usecase for DLT/Blockchain (and I have
used the order on purpose here)


But its late for me, and I might be totally wrong...


reg,

T. 


On 30.08.2016 00:02, j stollman wrote:
> I agree with Colin and Andrew's sentiments about trying to achieve a
> consensus on what the DG report should look like and what we could do
> as a next step in a WG.  But I don't believe that there is a natural
> consensus on this broad topic at this point.  Like the blind men
> describing the elephant, we are looking at blockchain and smart
> contracts from multiple perspectives -- none of which are wrong.  
>
> I personally sense that there is some high-level agreement to focus on
> a couple broad solution areas as targets for a report (e.g.,
> healthcare research consents).  But I also sense that there is a lot
> of talking past each other when we start drilling down to the
> direction people want to go.  Unlike other DGs, we have taken on two
> very broad topic areas in this DG (blockchain and smart contracts)
> just to try to get our heads wrapped around the subject.  I don't know
> that we have accomplished this basic goal.  We are still "storming"
> and nowhere near "norming".  This makes it hard to come to any kind of
> agreement.  And, perhaps forcing ourselves into a lukewarm consensus
> just to meet a self-imposed deadline will keep us from discovering
> some significant value added topics that would benefit from the
> combined wisdom of the highly intelligent participants in this group.
>
> Perhaps, rather than a single report, we made need to consider
> multiple reports and/or multiple targets for a new WG or set of WGs. 
> I don't claim that this is the answer.  I just don't sense that we are
> close enough to any consensus yet to create a report with significant
> value.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Jeff Stollman
> stollman.j at gmail.com <mailto:stollman.j at gmail.com>
> +1 202.683.8699
>
>
> Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.
> Science advances one funeral at a time.
>                                     Max Planck
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 12:18 PM, M AV <av_m at hotmail.com
> <mailto:av_m at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Ditto on the keep-it-simple sentiment – except that I wouldn’t
>     characterize it as “not beg[ing] the question of technology” so
>     much as not getting into the weeds with details, the distinction
>     being that I do think we need to keep cycling back to the basic
>     question of what the smart contract/authenticated ledger
>     technology especially enables in the proo0sed use cases, e.g.
>     empowerment of smart contract parties, authenticated chain of
>     asset states, etc.
>
>      
>
>     J  ann vroom
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     *From:*dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
>     <mailto:dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org>
>     [mailto:dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
>     <mailto:dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org>] *On Behalf Of *Eve
>     Maler
>     *Sent:* Monday, August 29, 2016 12:08 PM
>     *To:* Andrew Hughes <andrewhughes3000 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:andrewhughes3000 at gmail.com>>
>
>
>     *Cc:* dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org
>     <mailto:dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [DG-BSC] FYI
>
>      
>
>     Hi folks-- Now that I'm back from my vacation with self-imposed
>     lack of connectivity...
>
>      
>
>     It's fine for us to get more experts at our table, but this should
>     in no way impede our development and completion of use cases. I do
>     think we can easily over-rotate on use case writing, and we
>     probably are doing so. They should be short and crisp, and -- most
>     importantly from my perspective -- /should not beg the question of
>     technology/ by including requirements for technology in them. If
>     there's a requirement for, say, not trusting a central authority,
>     say why plainly and move on. If it turns out that this is in
>     tension with a requirement for limiting access by some parties for
>     some purpose (e.g., the best way today for ensuring
>     "permissioning" of some portion of a solution stack is to use
>     identity/access federation frameworks with a TTP in them), so be
>     it; we're here to describe the use cases and then those tensions
>     in the use-case technology/technique SWOTs, not write specs.
>
>      
>
>     That said, we can be very dynamic in writing our materials given
>     online docs and hyperlinking and such, and thus we can get
>     internal and external review as we go along. So if we're
>     disciplined, we don't have to write-write-write now and then only
>     get review in month 6.
>
>      
>
>     My preference would be for use cases to be relatively text-sparse
>     and to include use case diagrams as appropriate. Not sure how
>     realistic this is, though.
>
>
>     *Eve Maler
>     *ForgeRock Office of the CTO | VP Innovation & Emerging Technology
>     Cell +1 425.345.6756 <tel:%2B1%20425.345.6756> | Skype: xmlgrrl |
>     Twitter: @xmlgrrl
>     *ForgeRock Summits and UnSummits* are coming to
>     <http://summits.forgerock.com/> *London and Paris!*
>
>      
>
>     On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Andrew Hughes
>     <andrewhughes3000 at gmail.com <mailto:andrewhughes3000 at gmail.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>         John W. - that is one very good candidate - it would, of
>         course, need more detail at this stage to spur the need for a WG. 
>
>          
>
>         One way to view a WG is through questions like:
>
>         - Which technical or policy audience needs a consensus
>         standard, guidance or tool?
>
>         - Is there a state of practice or new regulation/legislation
>         that is ready for compliance and conformance development and
>         even certification?
>
>         - Is there a consensus position or opinion that needs to be
>         articulated in order to rally the industry and inform a
>         specific audience?
>
>         - Is there a group of related activities or initiatives that
>         would benefit from an umbrella document to knit the parts
>         together and bring cohesion to the disparate work?
>
>          
>
>         The mission of a WG is to create useful artifacts for a
>         well-scoped, well-defined audience through consensus-based
>         collaboration. This mission is easy to execute when
>         participants with a strong interest in the outcome/output are
>         engaged (otherwise WGs drift).
>
>          
>
>         andrew.
>
>
>         *Andrew Hughes *CISM CISSP 
>         Independent Consultant
>         *In Turn Information Management Consulting*
>
>         o  +1 650.209.7542 <tel:%2B1%20650.209.7542>
>         m +1 250.888.9474 <tel:%2B1%20250.888.9474>
>         1249 Palmer Road,
>         Victoria, BC V8P 2H8
>         AndrewHughes3000 at gmail.com <mailto:AndrewHughes3000 at gmail.com> 
>         ca.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-hughes/a/58/682/
>         <http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-hughes/a/58/682/>
>         *Identity Management | IT Governance | Information Security *
>
>          
>
>         On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:03 AM, John Wunderlich
>         <john at wunderlich.ca <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca>> wrote:
>
>             Colin;
>
>              
>
>             Given the constraints/opportunities it occurs to me that
>             the DG report should seek to articulate the Terms of
>             Reference for a Kantara WG whose goal would be to define
>             and work to create a Proof Of Concent instantiation of a
>             Blockchain and/or SmartContract ecosystem that will move
>             the user centred identity concept closer to fruition, if
>             that makes sense?
>
>
>              
>
>             Sincerely,
>             John Wunderlich
>             @PrivacyCDN
>
>             Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-4749>
>             eMail: john at wunderlich.ca <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca>
>
>              
>
>             On 29 August 2016 at 10:34, Colin Wallis
>             <colin_wallis at hotmail.com
>             <mailto:colin_wallis at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Thanks John M, John W, James, Patrick et al
>
>                  
>
>                 I think we are all in agreement we could do with more
>                 input from the broader BC and SC communities.
>
>                 And of course that is most welcomed, moreso if they
>                 bring their own communities with them and join Kantara
>                 which helps pay for the platform on which the DG rests:-).
>
>                  
>
>                 I'm also sensitive to the LC Chair Andrew's motivation
>                 to bring DG discussions to a conclusion at frequent
>                 intervals (typically 6 months) in order to get onto
>                 the work of addressing the issues that the DG use
>                 cases and deliberations raise.  
>
>                  
>
>                 These two things are not mutually exclusive. We can
>                 have a WG working on solutions arising from a DG
>                 output, while at the same time having a DG continue to
>                 draw in more use cases and discussion. The Charters
>                 need to be directed and focussed accordingly and the
>                 timelines clear.
>
>                  
>
>                 John W's estimates are about right. We started this DG
>                 in May, so we need to have it concluded November
>                 latest. Take off a month of writing and there is 2
>                 months left.
>
>                  
>
>                 It is really tempting to slip the timeline to allow
>                 more discussion in a DG, as a preface to WG work. 
>
>                 But past experience has shown us that that often comes
>                 at the expense of focussing the resulting WG on
>                 nailing the solutions to the problems raised, to a
>                 logical formal end deliverable in a community-valuable
>                 timeframe.
>
>                 There is so much to do in this space. 
>
>                 Biting it off in a continual process of digestible
>                 chunks is absolutely OK.
>
>                  
>
>                 Cheers
>
>                 Colin
>
>                  
>
>                   
>
>                  
>
>                 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                 *From:*John Moehrke <johnmoehrke at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:johnmoehrke at gmail.com>>
>                 *Sent:* 29 August 2016 13:42
>                 *To:* James Hazard
>                 *Cc:* Colin Wallis; dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org
>                 <mailto:dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org>
>                 *Subject:* Re: [DG-BSC] FYI
>
>                  
>
>                 I have a potential new use of Blockchain and
>                 Smart-Contracts. I have written it up using the
>                 template, but don't yet have rights on the Kantara
>                 system. I have published what I have developed with a
>                 friend of mine (Health Informaticist and Researcher)
>                 onto my Blog. I am happy to submit it fully to the
>                 Kantara DG-BSC efforts if the community is interested.
>
>                  
>
>                 The use-case is Evidence Notebooks (aka Lab Notebooks,
>                 or Patent Notebooks).
>
>                  
>
>                 https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com/2016/08/blockchain-and-smart-contracts-applied.html
>                 <https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com/2016/08/blockchain-and-smart-contracts-applied.html>
>
>
>                 Healthcare CyberPrivacy: Blockchain and
>                 Smart-Contracts applied to Evidence Notebook
>                 <https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com/2016/08/blockchain-and-smart-contracts-applied.html>
>
>                 healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com
>                 <http://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com>
>
>                  
>
>                  
>
>                 John
>
>
>                 John Moehrke
>                 Principal Engineering Architect: Standards -
>                 Interoperability, Privacy, and Security
>                 CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications
>                 while respecting Privacy
>                 M +1 920-564-2067 <tel:%2B1%20920-564-2067>
>                 JohnMoehrke at gmail.com <mailto:JohnMoehrke at gmail.com>
>                 https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke
>                 <https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke>
>                 https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com
>                 <https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com>
>                 "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the
>                 watchers?")
>
>                  
>
>                 On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 7:26 AM, James Hazard
>                 <james.g.hazard at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:james.g.hazard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                     Hi Colin, 
>
>                      
>
>                     I think it might be helpful to have wider
>                     representation of the blockchain community on the
>                     thread.  I mention the DG-BSC when I am in
>                     conversation with them. 
>
>                      
>
>                     On deliverables, I think we have spent good time
>                     well on discussing what blockchains and smart
>                     contracts are and aren't, and could do more on how
>                     they fit into a broader picture of automation,
>                     institutions, privacy and security.  (Elements of
>                     the blockchain community, IMHO, sometimes think
>                     they don't need to think about institutions, since
>                     ridding the world of institutions is the goal of
>                     decentralization.)
>
>                      
>
>                     I suggest that we could:
>
>                      
>
>                     Describe a general "smart contract" paradigm on
>                     the lines of:
>
>                      
>
>                         i)   events - (Barclay's and R3's "parameters")
>
>                         ii)  text objects ("prose," actors, things,
>                         places, etc.)
>
>                         iii) Smart Contract Description Language
>
>                         iv) code
>
>                      
>
>                     We could describe the relationship between this
>                     "smart contract" record of relationships and
>                     transactions, on the one hand, and various
>                     databases on the other.  
>
>                      
>
>                     We could describe some uses cases where blockchain
>                     databases were useful.
>
>                      
>
>                     This would not exclude developing use-case
>                     verticals.  The consent to use of genetic
>                     information use case seems potent.
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                     On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Colin Wallis
>                     <colin_wallis at hotmail.com
>                     <mailto:colin_wallis at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                         Thanks All
>
>                         Interesting thoughts and discussion.
>
>                         Indeed we could invite some other folks not
>                         engaged here to add their use cases.
>
>                         But it would need to be pretty soon.
>
>                         We are more than half way through the 6 month
>                         period for collecting use cases, allowing some
>                         time for the report to be written up with
>                         recommendations on what work we might take
>                         forward to a WG to deliver a specific
>                         useful tangible output.
>
>                         There is plenty of talk in this domain.
>                         But Kantara value proposition that it is about
>                         'doing', and the community will be the better
>                         for a useful deliverable as a result. Let's
>                         not divert from that goal. 
>
>                         That said, there is nothing to stop another
>                         DG, or a re-charter of this DG, working on a
>                         another suite of use cases perhaps for a
>                         particular context.
>
>                         Cheers
>
>                         Colin
>
>                          
>
>                          
>
>                         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                         *From:*dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
>                         <mailto:dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org>
>                         <dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
>                         <mailto:dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org>>
>                         on behalf of Patrick Curry
>                         <patrick.curry at bbfa.info
>                         <mailto:patrick.curry at bbfa.info>>
>                         *Sent:* 28 August 2016 22:15
>                         *To:* James Hazard
>                         *Cc:* dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org
>                         <mailto:dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org>
>                         *Subject:* Re: [DG-BSC] FYI
>
>                          
>
>                         The devil is in the detail and also in the
>                         minds of innovators and start ups.
>
>                          
>
>                         Back end transactions of smart contracts
>                         differ from the smart contracts in BCs with
>                         their transparency property.  My colleagues
>                         see a difference and it is giving rise to new
>                         user cases.  One involves the ability of all
>                         parties in a police incident to be able to
>                         validate that the legally permitted individual
>                         policeman is assigned to a specific task for
>                         that incident in real time based on his
>                         skills, training, authority etc.  The rules
>                         are being executed in a distributed fashion
>                         with distributed inputs, all assured.  This
>                         particular example is in the concept stage. 
>                         However, there is another international
>                         logistic example. leveraging an existing
>                         pilot, that is expected to move into
>                         implementation soon.
>
>                          
>
>                         I’ll speak to Colin.  We could be inviting
>                         some of the more forward BC companies to
>                         engage in the KI discussion.
>
>
>                         regards,
>
>                          
>
>                         Patrick
>
>                         Patrick Curry
>                         Director
>
>                         British Business Federation Authority - BBFA Ltd
>                         M: +44 786 024 9074 <tel:%2B44%20786%20024%209074>
>                         T:   +44 1980 620606 <tel:%2B44%201980%20620606>
>                         patrick.curry at bbfa.info
>                         <mailto:patrick.curry at bbfa.info>
>                         www.bbfa.info <http://www.bbfa.info> – a
>                         not-for-profit, self-regulating body   
>
>                          
>
>                         On 28 Aug 2016, at 20:07, James Hazard
>                         <james.g.hazard at gmail.com
>                         <mailto:james.g.hazard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                          
>
>                         Yes, IPFS is a very useful resource.
>
>                          
>
>                         The chain of consent to use of information
>                         seems to unify many use cases.  A few links in
>                         the chain from prior threads in the discussion:
>
>                          
>
>                         Patient consent from our discussion earlier
>                         this week:
>
>                         http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=/GH/KantaraInitiative/DG-BSC/Consent/Use1/05-AliceGrants.md
>                         <http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=/GH/KantaraInitiative/DG-BSC/Consent/Use1/05-AliceGrants.md>
>
>                          
>
>                         Data transfer agreements on the EU "Model
>                         Clauses":
>
>                         http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=Wx/eu/europa/eur-lex/Privacy/ModelClauses/EN/Demo/0.md
>                         <http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=Wx/eu/europa/eur-lex/Privacy/ModelClauses/EN/Demo/0.md>
>
>                         (Available in 20+ languages, about six of
>                         which are in the demo).
>
>                          
>
>                          
>
>                          
>
>                          
>
>                         On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Thomas
>                         Hardjono <hardjono at mit.edu
>                         <mailto:hardjono at mit.edu>> wrote:
>
>
>                             Jim,
>
>                             With regards to legal contracts for
>                             data-sharing, this could be (should be) a
>                             good use-case for BSC.
>
>                             /thomas/
>
>
>
>                             ________________________________________
>                             From: Jim Willeke [jim at willeke.com
>                             <mailto:jim at willeke.com>]
>                             Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 9:56 AM
>                             To: John Wunderlich
>                             Cc: Thomas Hardjono;
>                             dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org
>                             <mailto:dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org>
>                             Subject: Re: [DG-BSC] FYI
>
>                             I agree with /thomas/. There is no reason
>                             smart contracts could not be done via a
>                             protocol with the back-end system be unknown.
>
>                             IPFS could be used as an example.
>
>                             JLINC<http://www.jlinclabs.com/protocol/
>                             <http://www.jlinclabs.com/protocol/>> is
>                             one such idea.
>
>                             --
>                             -jim
>                             Jim Willeke
>
>                             On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:24 AM, John
>                             Wunderlich <john at wunderlich.ca
>                             <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca><mailto:john at wunderlich.ca
>                             <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca>>> wrote:
>                             Blockchains of adherence?
>
>                             If smart contracts are published on well
>                             known URI’s, then agreeing to them by
>                             signing the contract and putting the MAC
>                             on the blockchain provides some level of
>                             assurance. This becomes even more powerful
>                             when the smart contract can accept or
>                             negotiate terms and what gets recorded on
>                             the blockchain memorialized the terms
>                             freely negotiated by both parties bots.
>
>                             ???
>
>
>                             Sincerely,
>                             John Wunderlich
>                             @PrivacyCDN
>
>                             Call: +1 (647) 669-4749
>                             <tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-4749><tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-
>                             <tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20669->4749>
>                             eMail: john at wunderlich.ca
>                             <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca><mailto:john at wunderlich.ca
>                             <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca>>
>
>                             On 28 August 2016 at 08:20, Thomas
>                             Hardjono <hardjono at mit.edu
>                             <mailto:hardjono at mit.edu><mailto:hardjono at mit.edu
>                             <mailto:hardjono at mit.edu>>> wrote:
>
>                             Thanks John,
>
>                             Good piece.
>
>                             I think there is still a lot of confusion
>                             about the promise of smart-contracts
>                             executing collectively on a syntax-rich
>                             set of nodes, vs the very limited
>                             Bitcoin-blockchain of today.
>
>                             Maybe BSC-DG could come up with our own
>                             new terms or language to describe the
>                             possible features of smart contracts.
>
>
>                             /thomas/
>
>                             ___________________________________
>
>                             On Aug 27, 2016, at 11:48 PM, John
>                             Wunderlich <john at wunderlich.ca
>                             <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca><mailto:john at wunderlich.ca
>                             <mailto:john at wunderlich.ca>>> wrote:
>
>                             https://theconversation.com/blockchain-really-only-does-one-thing-well-62668
>                             <https://theconversation.com/blockchain-really-only-does-one-thing-well-62668>
>
>
>
>                             Thanks, John
>                             4giv spellin errurz from mobile devize
>
>
>
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