[DG-BSC] WEF Report

James Hazard james.g.hazard at gmail.com
Thu Aug 18 07:46:51 CDT 2016


This is an interesting discussion.

I have no dog in this fight, and am not trying to take sides.  I notice,
however, that telcos are i) more digital, ii) in more direct contact with
the customer via mobile phones iii) more agile iv) bigger (in subscriber
bases).

In addition to the advantages of banks mentioned in the report, banks are
more numerous and many are more local than telcos.  They might pose less of
monopoly threat and perhaps less monoculture threat.

In this view, telcos are natural conduits for a P2P solution and banks are
natural hosts.  This of course does not make banks the exclusive hosts, not
even for a single individual.  In a P2P solution, individuals can
host-their-own or host with an alternative supplier, and there is a very
low barrier to switching.




On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Luk Vervenne <luk.vervenne at synergetics.be>
wrote:

> Adding to Martin’s, here’s another one :
>
> Even in an digital world, most of the economic value of an individual is
> spend ...local.
> So federated IdM - and in fact the Digital Utility supporting Personal
> Data Ecosystems - need to be locally based in a Europe of Regions.
>
> Luk
>
>
> On 18 Aug 2016, at 14:04, Martin Kuppinger <mk at kuppingercole.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> yes, unfortunately they neither act that way nor are they as trusted for
> that role as most believe.
> We did research even a couple of years ago on that and it has been
> verified repeatedly that Telcos including mobile operators are in a better
> position. They are trusted. And they have far bigger ecosystems than most
> banks have. Furthermore, I believe that many people still want to keep
> identity and their own financials somewhat separate. Otherwise, PayPal
> might be the best home for identity management: Global, large scale,…
> At least we finally might see an evolution towards an ecosystem of trusted
> identity providers with sufficient interoperability, particularly for the
> interactions and transactions that really need trust. Most governments
> failed in providing such infrastructure. Others, including many startups,
> tried to fill that gap – and commonly failed. Now, others (and I bet more
> on telcos than the finance industry), based on new technical options, might
> succeed.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
> *Von:* dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org [mailto:dg-bsc-bounces@
> kantarainitiative.org <dg-bsc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org>] *Im Auftrag
> von *James Hazard
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. August 2016 13:58
> *An:* John Wunderlich <john at wunderlich.ca>
> *Cc:* dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [DG-BSC] WEF Report
>
> This report of the World Economic Forum, done by Deloitte, has a
> consistent thesis - that banks (financial institutions) are the natural
> home for identity management.  It makes the point in great depth.
>
> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_A_Blueprint_for_Digital_Identity.pdf
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 5:02 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A couple of thoughts:
>
> These "blockchain" analyses tend to minimize the role of related
> technologies, such as identity management and access control, and of
> knock-on effects resulting from, for instance, harmonization of the record
> format, of the functions and of the legal text.  If we recontextualize
> "blockchain," it is busting down the proprietary door to banking and
> finance software, and all the other technologies can follow.  "Financial
> technology" becomes simply "technology," technology that is open source.
>
> Borrowing from the Barclays' smart templates vocabulary and Thomas's use
> case, the layers seem to be:
>
> 1. Records, which can be:
>   1.1. parameters (transaction particulars and paradigms)
>   1.2. prose (framing - legal, descriptive and other human-readable text)
>   1.3. code (functions - "smart contracts" - text that computers like to
> read)
> 2. synchronization of records
> 3. execution of code
> 4. management of collections of records (notably access control)
> 5. validation of the veracity of collections of records.
>
>
> "Blockchains," in the technical sense provide advantages primarily in
> layer 5, but "blockchains" in the movement sense highlight the advantages
> of using common approaches to the other layers.  Blockchains in the
> technical sense are suboptimal (or even unusable) in some of the other
> layers, notably in management of records.  It is hard to see how
> blockchains can be reconciled with, for instance, the privacy requirements
> of the GDPR.
>
> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/BSC/
> Privacy-Preserving+Data+Sharing
>
> Banking is a particularly important use case, that we might wish to
> consider.  The EU Payment Services Directive mandates banking APIs.  Banks
> are, I am told, extremely concerned about data security and fraud, as well
> as worried about the competitive effects.
>
> To demonstrate a vision of "open sourced" financial services in a format
> that is compatible with blockchains but not dependent on them, I improved
> on a "bank chain" demo I did in France.  This demo is very dense - (not the
> first time that that can be said of my work) - but it shows a flow of
> drafting, signature and validation of a payment instrument (check), and has
> stubs for specifying consequences that need to be implemented in code (a
> kind of loose-text SCDL - smart contract definition language).
>
> This is neither legal nor coding advice, and is certainly wrong in all
> particulars, but it may help convey the general idea - that open source
> (blockchain in context) can permit the financial sector and its customers
> (most of us) to be treated as a decentralized file system, nodes in a
> "graph."
>
>
> http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=bqc/
> fr/bnpp/a5we/Account/Check/00001/06-Accept.md
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:14 PM, John Wunderlich <john at wunderlich.ca>
> wrote:
>
> If I were to pick at that nit, I would suggest "mistrust somewhere in the
> chain of transactions"
> Thanks, John
> 4giv spellin errurz from mobile devize
>
>
> _____________________________
> From: j stollman <stollman.j at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [DG-BSC] WEF Report
> To: John Wunderlich <john at wunderlich.ca>
> Cc: Thomas Hardjono <hardjono at mit.edu>, <dg-bsc at kantarainitiative.org>
>
> John,
>
> This list provides some valuable insight.
>
> The only thing I would change is the Item 3:  Minimal Trust.  My
> correction is nitpicky, but I would change "mistrust *between* entities:
> to "mistrust *among* entities."  Often the two parties transacting trust
> each other.  The trust breakdown is further up or down the transaction
> chain.  "Among" captures this more accurately than "between."
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Jeff Stollman
> stollman.j at gmail.com
>
> +1 202.683.8699
>
> Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.
> Science advances one funeral at a time.
>                                     Max Planck
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:27 AM, John Wunderlich <john at wunderlich.ca>
> wrote:
>
> Here's the page that leapt out at me - characteristics of high potential
> use cases
> <image001.jpg>
> John Wunderlich,
>
> Sent frum a mobile device,
> Pleez 4give speling erurz
>
> "...a world of near-total surveillance and endless record-keeping is
> likely to be one with less liberty, less experimentation, and certainly far
> less joy..." A. Michael Froomkin
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 5:13 AM -0400, "Thomas Hardjono" <hardjono at mit.edu>
> wrote:
>
> This might help us in some of our use cases:http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_future_of_financial_infrastructure.pdf/thomas/_______________________________________________DG-BSC mailing listDG-BSC at kantarainitiative.orghttp://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc
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>
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