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Kantara Initiative Identity Assurance WG Teleconference

Table of Contents



DRAFT IAWG Approved Meeting Minutes - IAWG approval requiredon 2013-12-12

NOTE: These meeting minutes also contain notes from December 6 2013 - a continuation of this meeting for discussion of the FICAM TFS update material.

Date and Time


  1. Administration:
    1. Roll Call
    2. Agenda Confirmation
    3. Minutes approval: IAWG Meeting Minutes 2013-11-21
    4. Action Item Review
    5. Staff reports and updates
    6. LC reports and updates
    7. Call for Tweet-worthy items to feed (@KantaraNews or #kantara)
  2. Discussion
    1. IAF-1400 draft for 45 day public review - see linked document:   Kantara IAF-1400 SAC v3-1.docx    
    2. Disposition of 800-63-2 -> SAC Mapping working documents - where/how to store for future reference?
    3. FICAM TFS Program update comments from IAWG members & consolidation
      Link to review documents and comment template here: 
    4. REMINDER: Ad hoc call to continue FICAM TFS discussion Friday December 6, 2013 10:00 Eastern.
  3. AOB
  4. Adjourn


Link to IAWG Roster

As of 2013 November 21, quorum is 5 of 8


  • Myisha Frazier-McElveen (C)
  • Rich Furr (V-C)
  • Andrew Hughes (S)
  • Scott Shorter
  • Matt Thompson
  • Richard Wilsher
  • Cathy Tilton






  • None


Notes & Minutes


Minutes Approval

IAWG Meeting Minutes 2013-11-21

Motion to approve minutes of 2013-11-21: Furr
Seconded: Shorter
Discussion: None
Motion Carried 

Action Item Review

See the Action Items Log wiki page

Staff Updates

LC Updates
  • Discussed charters
  • eGov planning be working on an updated profile this year
  • There was discussion about membership as it relates to WG Chair/Vice-Chair roles
Participant updates


IAF-1400 for 45 day Public Review
  • The final version of the IAF-1400 SAC for 45 day public review is here:  Kantara IAF-1400 SAC v3-1.docx    
  • Move to release this document to to 45 day public review: Furr 
  • Seconded: Wilsher 
  • Discussion: None 
  • Motion carries
Disposition of 800-63-2 -> IAF mapping documentation


Email from Richard Wilsher 2013-12-05 - The referenced document is attached to this page


  • Wilsher has floated the idea of publishing it as a report
  • Furr - OK with it as a report, not OK with including it within the IAF document
  • Wilsher - not actually a working document - it realigns 800-63-2 text and clarifies ambiguous items in 800-63-2. This document is intended to go back to NIST as input to a potential 800-63 update. Indicates where a US Federal Profile could be developed. The document should be made publicly available.
  • Frasier-MacElveen - that last reason is a good case to exclude it from the actual IAF - it should be a Report.
  • The document only deals with 800-63-2 - when Kantara IAF is assessed against the FICAM TFPAP the 800-63-2 is not actually in scope - the document might cause confusion at that time. 
  • The document is useful, should be publicly available, we appear to agree that it should be a Report.
  • Frasier-MacElveen - The Executive Summary appears to say that Kantara is providing advice/direction to Federal Agencies - we should not do this.
  • Wilsher: the Apologia covers how the document was created. The Executive Summary could simply be deleted.
  • Group suggests that the Apologia becomes the Executive Summary
  • This document is non-normative - assessors should not be using this for assessment. It is only for background information.
  • A CSP could choose to reference this document - this is not a Kantara requirement.
  • Wilsher to update and forward the document to IAWG for consideration.



FICAM TFS Program update comments from IAWG members - December 5 2013 meeting notes
  • RF: the ATOS seems to be making the CSPs into Attribute Providers - the current requirement is to only maintain core attributes - there seems to be an extension into a new set of attributes - this would increase costs, might knock smaller CSPs out of the running because they may not have the resources to deal with the extra attributes. 
  • RF: Anil John referenced ANSI/NASPO Section 6 
  • MF: Read it as an optional requirement - if they are available then provide the attributes, if not then no issue. 
  • RF: Verbal indications that the attribute provision is leaning towards mandatory provision (because the Federal Agencies might ask for them)
  • SS: There is a section in the RP Guidance on disambiguation of identities - it recommends that the agency goes to an attribute provider without any reference to LOAs.
  • CT: Anil mentioned that this set of attributes is needed for the RPs to perform account/identity disambiguation and linking to the right agency account
  • MF: most RPs don't identify their clients from these attributes - they know them by other information
  • RF: do the SAML assertions have to include the extra attribute data? If yes, then the CSP will have to capture and maintain the extra attributes.
  • SS: don't these attributes have to be collected and kept as proof of the ID Proofing process?
  • RF: yes. but they do an encrypted hash of the values
  • MF: But there are many attributes that are not currently collected
  • RF: The registration authority does not store the information - the Certificate Authority keeps it if they want to or need to.
  • SS: It appears that Verizon would meet the Bundle 1 requirements.


  • SS: If they are looking for verified attributes, then it has to be better defined.
  • MF: It is unclear if the attributes SHALL be sent if the CSP has them or if they are optional.
  • RW: Are we making the assumption that the RP will be dictating the attributes that the CSP will have to gather in the ID Proofing process? 
    • (RF: Yes) 
    • So, is this assumption correct? 
    • (RF: Vz reading is that if the RP asks for it, then the CSP pretty much has to provide it)
    • This needs clarification
  • RW: The requirements are stated in terms of what the RP must do. The implication that is not clearly stated is that the imposition on the RP becomes an implication on the CSP. This is essentially a profile imposed on 800-63-2 -> "these are the things needed to sufficiently define an 'identity'"
  • MF: consolidate Scott's item with Rich's item 
  • RW: There's also an issue with the footnote saying 'in order of preference' -> this implies that beyond the core attributes, it is not clear what weighting the additional attributes have (the core gets 96% certainty, so what do the others provide?)
  • RF: Danger is in who is interpreting this - CSP will see it one way, Federal RP will interpret differently.
  • RF: If adding Attribute Providers into the CSP process, it's possible that the price of the CSP services will rise which might become an inhibitor to RP uptake.
  • ALL: review comments that have been circulated so far for tomorrow's call


FICAM TFS Program update comments from IAWG members - December 6 2013 meeting notes

Myisha Frasier-MacElveen (Chair), Rich Furr (Vice-Chair), Andrew Hughes (Secretary), Peter McDonald (Symantec), Nathan Faut (KPMG), Cathy (Daon), Scott Shorter (Electrosoft), Bill Braithwaite 


  • Andrew to consolidate
  • Scott to update his comments
  • Myisha to send comments to Andrew
  • Andrew to send consolidated sheet to Joni for integration into the ARB document



Carry-forward Items





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