[KI-LC] Japan WG budget allocation requests

Fri Dec 10 12:47:40 EST 2010

While I do agree in part with what Toshi is saying.....that some of the
very valuable activities that the Japan WG executes could certainly be
characterized as marketing for Kantara....the Marketing committee has no
budget authority and very little capacity to assess these kinds of
things, it thus remains better that all WGs work budget requests through
the LC budget process.  I have faith that the LC can discern activities
of value whether they be traditional work projects or educational
programs that are more about marketing/communicating what KI is doing
and that the LC has the best interests of the entire org. in mind.

Thanks

matthew

CA Technologies

Matthew Gardiner

Director, CA Security Business 

matthew.gardiner at ca.com
Tel:  +1 508-628-8598

Mobile:  +1 508-494-0503

<mailto:>   <http://www.ca.com/> 

From: lc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org
[mailto:lc-bounces at kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of Toshihiro Suzuki
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:08 PM
To: j stollman; Eve Maler
Cc: Kantara Leadership Council Kantara
Subject: Re: [KI-LC] Japan WG budget allocation requests

As you know very well, JapanWG is very special than other WGs activity.
It seems the JapanWG's activity might be part of the marketing activity.
I think LC cannot decide those kinds of activities anymore, so that I
would like to propose to ask to BoT and Marketing Committee for the
review.

--toshi

From: j stollman [mailto:stollman.j at gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 1:31 AM
To: Eve Maler
Cc: Kantara Leadership Council Kantara
Subject: Re: [KI-LC] Japan WG budget allocation requests

I have added additional comments in line after Eve's.

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Eve Maler <eve at xmlgrrl.com> wrote:

Since we have some new data on these, I wanted to highlight that data
and see if we can use email to discuss potential recommendations to make
to the BoT. Below are links to the three relevant pages and excerpts of
their content. My ruminations are below in color.

Eve

http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/LC/2011+Budget+Request+-
+Japan+WG+-+A

Request For: Translate Kantara IAF into Japanese

Requested Amount: $29,000.00

*	Question: Is there a way to verify that the estimated cost for
translation?

	*	Answer: The estimation was the result of that Japan WG
asked the translation company who has several experience to translate
"Standard" documents into Japanese.

*	Question: Is there a way to explore how many Japanese
organizations might be interested in the IAF once it's translated?

	*	Answer: Japan WG discussed that translated IAF
specification is very important. I believe Kantara can count the number
of download, or we may be able to ask the user to input name (email
address) before the download.

*	Question: Can you propose a way the LC can evaluate the return
on this investment? Specifically, is there a way we can guess how many
organizations in Japan would see value in a translation to the degree
they may adopt it, or join the IAF Work Group to help advance it?

	*	Answer: I think we can count the number of downloads of
Japanese translation. I would like to hear JapanWG members' idea.

*	Question: How will this be effected by the expected IAF
revisions? For example, we know that the IAF is already working on
modifications. Can you estimate how much additional cost would be
involved in future edits?

	*	Answer: It depends on the change, but I believe the
minor change will be done by JapanWG members. In general, the quality of
the standard should be controlled by version number. As far as I know
Kantara starts the certification program which is based on IAF
specification. That means, we can not change the contents easily.

Thoughts: If we can establish that there is a Japanese market for IAF,
then this could be money well spent. I would love to see some data, of
whatever sort, that helps establish the interest.

I don't dispute the cost. I don't dispute that there is value here.  And
I don't want to alienate an entire nation because they don't happen to
speak English as a native language. But I am concerned that the
magnitude of this cost does not fit in the current Kantara budget.  I
view KI like a startup business.  There are lots of good things to
invest in, but limited cash.  And on a prioritized basis, many good
investments need to be foregone until there is sufficient cash flow to
address them.  Currently, I think that taking on foreign languages
(Japanese being only the first proposal) at this early stage is a bridge
too far.  We have a vast market that speaks English already open to us
without incurring such costs.  The only reason I can see to be more
aggressive in the Japanese market at this early stage in KI's
development would be an assumption that it is more ripe than others
(e.g., US, UK, EU, Canada, NZ, Australia) and likely to be an early
adopter.  I don't have any reason to believe that this assumption is
true (though I remain open to persuasion).

http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/LC/2011+Budget+Request+-
+Japan+WG+-+B

	Request For: Translate General Press Releases (10 translations)

	Requested Amount: $2,000.00

	*	Q: Is there a way to know what releases will be
translated? Assuming this is similar to what the group has done in the
past, can you point to a list of previously translated press releases
that would be examples of the types you anticipate being translated in
2011?

		*	A: It depends on Kantara press release
activities in 2011. Most important of this activity is that we need
Japanese translation which is native speaker's fluency, because a lot of
people (incl. JapanWG members) refer to the press release many times.

	*	Q: After being translated, are these releases
distributed beyond the WG, or are they intended for the WG participants?

		*	A: Yes, the translated press release will be
distributed to Japanese presses and magazines directly and indirectly.
Also, the press release will be post in JapanWG web-site to be referred
to anyone. And, we have a plan to ask to tweet about the press release
by IT leader in 2011. To do it, we need the complete translated press
release.

	*	Q: If the press releases are primarily for use by the
Work Group, is it possible to leverage less expensive online translation
services (understanding that they won't be perfect, but at least provide
the group participants with useful information)?

		*	A: See above. Of course, I and Sakamoto-san who
is co-chair of JapanWG are checking the camera ready version now.

	Thoughts: This seems like a reasonable cost for reaching a very
large audience (which could, obviously, stimulate interest in IAF and
more!) I would support recommending the full amount.

Same issue as above.  My apologies to our Japanese colleagues, but it
seems prudent to focus all of our resources on the "low-hanging fruit"
of markets that we can address without incurring these additional
expenses. 

http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/LC/2011+Budget+Request+-
+Japan+WG+-+C

	Request For: Event Support: Database Management (3 events)

	Requested Amount: $13,000.00

	*	Question: Why does this appear to be such a large
expense? Are there creative ways to leverage less expensive options?

		*	Answer: This estimate is the result of that
Japan WG asked 2 Japanese venders for providing the brief estimate.
Also, please note that this database contains the information of
attendees since Liberty Alliance era. That is the heart of Japan WG's
marketing activities.

	*	Q: Is there a way for the Japan WG to get a copy of the
database that has been used to date, and explore alternate, less
expensive options going forward?

		*	A: I think each WG/DG may not understand the
importance of maintenance of the database. This is similar of a customer
database in a company.

	*	This appears to be a large expense that the Leadership
Council members are interested in understanding in more detail. By way
of comparison, other Work Groups with similar needs have used
free/donated services as well as managing their lists using ad hoc tools
like spreadsheets.
	*	NOTE: This might be a question worthy of a phone call to
discuss with the budget subcommittee. The LC understands that the Japan
WG has seen value in this database, and it might help to explore how to
work together on an effective solution.

	Thoughts: This seems awfully high in this day and age,
particularly if this is anticipated to be an annual expense. It would be
great to get all the right folks on the call on Dec 22 to dive into
questions like: If the database contained information on "paying
customers", then an ROI could be established more easily. Did Liberty
itself, or does Kantara itself today, maintain a professional CRM system
for leads and members and other potential "customers"? How is the data
in this system leveraged for benefit in the Japan market? How "fresh"
and relevant is the data if it extends back to the Liberty era, and how
many current entries are in the system? Can this data be extracted and
managed in a free CRM system or equivalent?

I still don't understand what this is all about.  I don't think the
response to questions has clarified what this database consists of, how
it is used, and why it requires so much maintenance. 

	Eve Maler                                  
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
	+1 425 345 6756                         
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl

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-- 
Jeff Stollman
stollman.j at gmail.com
1 202.683.8699

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